If capacity over Cajon Pass is an obstacle to having a LA to Vegas train, why not run an LA to Vegas trip via the Antelope Valley Line (via Santa Clarita, Lancaster...)??? Metrolink operates the trackage between LA and Lancaster. Doesn't this line join up to the Vegas line at some point? My guess would be somewhere around Barstow? My understanding is that the SWC has been detoured over this line a time or two. I think the last detour was about 3 or four years ago due to brush fires on Cajon Pass.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
A bit off topic to your inquiry, Mr. Maniac, but does someone know something we don't?
Regarding an SP routing of an Angels Meadows service, true the trains would not have to traverse Tehachapi, but a quick peek at a map would suggest the routing would indeed be circuitous and would make any service hard pressed to be speed competitive with auto travel.
I guess if the only barrier to access was traversing Cajon, i.e. the UP was welcoming the service to their end of track at Yermo, and the BNSF was happy to host such on theirs to Mojave, then maybe there would be a talking point insomuch as UP was agreeable to hosting Metrolink trains and their freight traffic not consigned to or from the LA Basin uses their own SP line over Cajon to interchange with the Sunset Route.
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
OK, so instead of running over Cajon, you want to run on the Mojave Desert portion of Bakersfield-Barstow... with all the traffic moving to and from the Bay Area over Tehachipi Loop!
That's single track line, looking at google maps airphotos, and IIRC BNSF is rather busy on that line as well.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
Mr. Norman:
I assume that by the "does someone know something we don't?" you meant the "Amtrak Station" showing up on the map.
By the way, what happened to the usual NYT you got to register to see anything? I opened the article, enlarged, and copied the map without having to give them so much as a pardon me, sir instead of the DNA sample they usually seem to want before you can glance at their newspaper online.
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
I am not that familiar with Las Vegas, but is the location of the "AMTRAK station" shown on the map maybe the same as the old (Desert Wind) station -- the one which was at one of the casino hotels (I forgot which one the station was at) -- or does the NYT map show an area further south than the old station?
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
Las Vegas Downtown Station Casino as I recall...
I'm beginning to wonder if the Station chain started at the old UP station site...
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
I'm not sure which map you're talking about, but I might be able to shed a little light on Amtrak/Vegas......
The old Amtrak station (used by the Desert Wind) was behind the Union Plaza Hotel and Casino. The building and platform are both still there.
The Amtrak Thruway bus has two stops in Las Vegas. One is downtown at the Greyhound bus depot (in a horrible part of town), and the other is at McCarran Airport. For some reason, their buses do not stop at both locations. Some buses go to one location, and others go to the alternate location. The Thruway bus from Bakersfield (California) to Las Vegas only goes to the Greyhound depot, which is something I have never understood. McCarran Airport would be a MUCH better stop, not only because it's safer, but because the airport is adjacent to "The Strip", whereas the Greyhound station is several miles north of The Strip in downtown.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Mr. Harris, does The New York Times really put guests at their site through what sounds like an FBI background check? Having had home delivery of such since I left the MILW during 1981, such had not been of concern to me.
If you had a security clearance above Confidential when you were in Service, you knoweth of what i speaketh.
But then, I guess identifying the "Amtrak Station' on the map has proven to be of help to any of us who had occasion to know it location.
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
Mr smitty, looking just now at an airphoto on googlemaps, I can easily see the platform. Unless the Amtrak facility was in the Plaza Hotel itself, any station-type outbuilding built in the Amtrak era is gone.
Posted by rresor (Member # 128) on :
Running via the Antelope Valley to get to Las Vegas would involve a change of direction at Palmdale, where there is a connection between the Metrolink line and UP.
From Palmdale to Lancaster, Metrolink and UP are two parallel but separate single-track railroads. UP even has a passing siding on this stretch. Metrolink does not, but ends at two platform tracks at Lancaster with a platform between and bumper blocks at the north ends.
The connection at Palmdale facilitates access to the Lancaster line by a UP switcher that works south to Newhall (I think).
This wouldn't be a feasible through route without a wye connection at Palmdale, which does not now exist.
Posted by tommers207 (Member # 3930) on :
quote:Originally posted by PullmanCo: Mr smitty, looking just now at an airphoto on googlemaps, I can easily see the platform. Unless the Amtrak facility was in the Plaza Hotel itself, any station-type outbuilding built in the Amtrak era is gone.
It was there as of last April. It is not a huge station at all, more of an enlarged waiting room from what I could see. It is located on the backside of the Plaza Hotel and Casino at the west end of the Fremont Street Experience.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
Mr. Norman, maybe it is just my personal attitude, but for an on-line edition of a newspaper to ask you to "register" at all is equivalent to being asked to identify yourself before reading the headlines on the newspaper in the paper box. When they ask such things as your age, gender, and particularly any questions going beyond that, it is into "NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS" territory, and I will not do it.
Maybe the "DNA sample' comment was a little extreme.
Yes, I did go through the security clearance routine for "Secret" during OCS, and again later because my wife to be had a job requiring a higher clearance at the time we planned to marry.
(Hmm, the filter may now pass d-o-g, but it will not allow s-e-x, so I put in "gender" instead.)
Posted by Southwest Chief (Member # 1227) on :
Haven't been to Vegas in years, but I remember video footage my dad took on an eastbound Desert Wind trip where you can clearly see the hotel/casino California. How far away is this from the old Vegas train station?
It appears the train was stopping right as it passed the California in the video. It was at night too, but I forget what the scheduled arrival used to be. Around 8 PM? It's been a while
I should transfer our old Amtrak videos to digital so I can post them on YouTube.
Posted by amtraxmaniac (Member # 2251) on :
How costly would it be to construct a wye at Palmdale? And why do I have 4 or 5 year old coverage of the SWC at Lancaster, CA? I'm 100% sure its the Chief.
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
I remember getting off the Desert Wind LA>SLC while it stopped in Las Vegas in the late 70's. I think I walked right off the platform into the Union Plaza Hotel and there was red carpet and slot machines just inside the door.
Many years later I wandered into the Union Plaza to find where Amtrak used to be, and I found the area I remembered with old Amtrak posters and some signs stacked against the wall.
I may be remembering this wrong, but I think there was no separate structure that was a depot. There was just the platform and an Amtrak area in the Union Plaza Hotel.
Posted by tommers207 (Member # 3930) on :
quote:Originally posted by Southwest Chief: Haven't been to Vegas in years, but I remember video footage my dad took on an eastbound Desert Wind trip where you can clearly see the hotel/casino California. How far away is this from the old Vegas train station?
It appears the train was stopping right as it passed the California in the video. It was at night too, but I forget what the scheduled arrival used to be. Around 8 PM? It's been a while
I should transfer our old Amtrak videos to digital so I can post them on YouTube.
The California is across the street from the Plaza Hotel and Casino.
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
Yup---like Tommers said, the old Amtrak station is still there. Time is eating away at it.
And yes, the Desert Wind frequently pulled away with less passengers than it should have. Those one-armed-bandits made people lose track of time! Heh heh heh.....
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
Twin Star recalls the same thing that I did on my last trip on the now-defunct Desert Wind. There was no separate station building, and, as I recall, there was a big high fence along the tracks so you couldn't just hop off the train and run into the hotel to play the slot machines. There was an "Amtrak" sign on the outside entrance wall of the hotel, but that was the only evidence that the location was actually an operating ralroad passenger station.
Posted by tommers207 (Member # 3930) on :
Hey Smitty, I guess we're going to have to take a trip to Vegas and take a picture of the old station for everyone! Actually it just makes a good excuse to go to Vegas!
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
I think I was once told a planning figure of $2 million a mile for track. Of course, we're also talking about two turnouts and signalling, those are extras.
Of course, since Amtrak loses money and the annual grant appropriation is fully allocated, where do you propose the bucks to pay for the additional trackage?
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
quote:Originally posted by tommers207: Hey Smitty, I guess we're going to have to take a trip to Vegas and take a picture of the old station for everyone! Actually it just makes a good excuse to go to Vegas!
Absolutely, Tommers! As a matter of fact, I'm leaving for Vegas on Monday morning.
I got a letter in the mail from Venetian saying I could come hang out for free for 3 nights/4 days. Yipppee! So I'm flying there on Virgin America for 88 bucks round-trip, and hanging out at my favorite place on the Strip. I won't have a car this time, but if I make it downtown (I probably will) I'll see if I can access that area on foot. I don't think I can, but I know I could if I had a car to get over to the area on the other side of the tracks where there is a great view of the old Amtrak area.
Posted by tommers207 (Member # 3930) on :
quote:Originally posted by smitty195:
quote:Originally posted by tommers207: Hey Smitty, I guess we're going to have to take a trip to Vegas and take a picture of the old station for everyone! Actually it just makes a good excuse to go to Vegas!
Absolutely, Tommers! As a matter of fact, I'm leaving for Vegas on Monday morning.
I got a letter in the mail from Venetian saying I could come hang out for free for 3 nights/4 days. Yipppee! So I'm flying there on Virgin America for 88 bucks round-trip, and hanging out at my favorite place on the Strip. I won't have a car this time, but if I make it downtown (I probably will) I'll see if I can access that area on foot. I don't think I can, but I know I could if I had a car to get over to the area on the other side of the tracks where there is a great view of the old Amtrak area.
Not sure if you can get to the other side of the tracks with a car or with right now. You should be able to see the old station by going between the north side of the Plaza and the old dining cars on display. At the back of the parking area you can see the platform and station.
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