I for one, often find displayed an ad for the Acela.
Posted by HopefulRailUser (Member # 4513) on :
Uh oh, you are right. I got a Holland America ad, the cruise ship line I am enjoying on Saturday. That's a bit creepy.
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
That's very strange. Mine has an Amtrak ad for Acela.....seriously!
Posted by Amtrak207 (Member # 1307) on :
"Targeted marketing" is by no means new, it's about as old as the internets themselves. More like big business is watching.
Posted by Hoop (Member # 4607) on :
I think you all are over-reacting. Could it be that Amtrak "actually bought the ad space" on the NY times website? Hmmm?
Posted by Printman2000 (Member # 4338) on :
Just press reload several times and you will see all the different rotating advertisers.
Posted by HopefulRailUser (Member # 4513) on :
I see the other advertisers. Just coincidence that Holland America came up for me first.
Posted by amtraxmaniac (Member # 2251) on :
I'd hate to see what banner would be up there for someone who hits adult websites frequently. Scary. But I have seen this as Amtrak207 states: common target marketing. I get banners for Amtrak when I log into my Yahoo Account.
Posted by HillsideStation (Member # 6386) on :
I access the Times website four or five times a day and have yet to note an Amtrak "advert". Mostly I see Continental and a mix of other sponsors. That I have a program that sweeps all cookies on a routine basis may account for the lack of connection between my visits to rail websites and the Times adverts. Conversely, I contact airline websites, seldom, if ever.
The "spooks are everywhere".
Best regards, airlines, cruise lines and Amtrak. Rodger
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
Well, at first I got Holland America. On several reloads of the page I got several more versions of Holland America, two Needless Markup, er, Neiman Marcus, and one Acela. Maybe it identified me as a left coast reader from my IP address.
Posted by Geoff M (Member # 153) on :
The simple answer is that by clicking on Mr. Norman's link tells the NY Times what website you have just come from - Railforum (the referrer website). That's targetted advertising at its simplest form and doesn't even need cookies or any personal information. If I recall, Mr. Norman is an active subscriber to the NYT so the information they have on him is probably vast!
The advertising you see at the top of this page is based on the content of the page rather than personal information. If you find the bagpipes thread I think you'll find adverts for bagpipers!
What is more "sinister" (if you want to call it that) is the NY Times (and other websites) can keep track of what stories you're reading, so if you often read about trains, then that'll start ranking as important and thus the content will be targetted towards trains.
I don't know if you have supermarket loyalty cards over there but most of the major supermarkets here do (and most customers have one for each store they use; so much for "loyalty"). One receives offers through the post which just happen to match what you frequently buy. The loyalty cards aren't there to attract business; they're there to find out exactly what you're buying. Under the Data Protection Act I could probably find out what brand of sausages and how many I bought over the last year.
Still, I guess at least the offers/vouchers are for things I buy. Except for the one time when, as a single man at the time, I got sent a voucher for tampons. No idea how that got into the system.
Geoff M.
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
Hmmmm -- I got nothing except a red "X" in each of the 2 boxes next to the masthead
Posted by train lady (Member # 3920) on :
I just clicked on luggage in Seattle and the ad at the top came on as the Luggage Club. Geoff is right the ad at the top of the page relates to the topic.
Posted by Doc Brown (Member # 4724) on :
I get the Aceola ad. The targeted ads don't need cookies, all they need is browser history.
Posted by Geoff M (Member # 153) on :
quote:Originally posted by Doc Brown: The targeted ads don't need cookies, all they need is browser history.
Should point out to the worried folks here, a website can't see your entire browsing history, it only knows which website you have just come from by clicking on a link. For example, by clicking on Mr. Norman's link, the NYT will receive notification that it was reached by clicking on a link on this forum page. It has no way of knowing that I reached Railforum from a link on another website.
[There is an exploit using CSS that can test your browsing history against known websites but is rather limited in what information it can get].
Geoff M.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
Maybe it's time to hijack a thread and go south with it. I haven't gotten any banner ads for bagpipes, Scottish vacations, or dude ranches in quite some time now!
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
quote:Originally posted by Geoff M: I don't know if you have supermarket loyalty cards over there but most of the major supermarkets here do (and most customers have one for each store they use; so much for "loyalty"). One receives offers through the post which just happen to match what you frequently buy. The loyalty cards aren't there to attract business; they're there to find out exactly what you're buying. Under the Data Protection Act I could probably find out what brand of sausages and how many I bought over the last year.
Since I am functionally a fairly new arrival in the US, (one or two weeks a year for the last 17 years does not count as living in a place) I really don't know how general these things are, but Safeway does it, at least in the San Francisco bay area. Since there are some fairly good cost reductions I use the thing, knowing good and well that Big Brother is definitely watching, but when it comes to the grocery store, I don't care what he sees.
Posted by MontanaJim (Member # 2323) on :
I get Neiman Marcus when i clicked on the times link. Never shopped there in my life.
Posted by train lady (Member # 3920) on :
All the chain stores in our area have "club cards" which you sign up for and are free. You do save money by using them but I often wonder just what the mark up on groceries is and are we really saving.I did pick up a steak marked at $7.95 for $3.50 today so I am not complaining.I know this is off topic but will someone from the west answer, are fruits and veggies high there. The price her is incredible and my produce man says it is because of the hight gas prices in shipping from the west/ EX. today asparagus at the SAfeway was $4.99 a lb.
Posted by Geoff M (Member # 153) on :
quote:Originally posted by George Harris: Since there are some fairly good cost reductions I use the thing, knowing good and well that Big Brother is definitely watching, but when it comes to the grocery store, I don't care what he sees.
True, it's not as if they can do anything particularly useful with it - except make you buy more (do you really need to buy branded widget X "just because" it's got 25% off when generic widget Y will do the job and is far cheaper anyway?). Most seem to offer 1 point for every pound spent and every few months they'll send you a voucher for the number of points - usually 1 penny per point. So the net gain is a 1% discount. True, some products have bonus offers like 100 extra bonus points - but again do you really need it, or are you just buying it because of the points?
Interestingly, Asda (owned by Walmart) don't have a loyalty scheme. For the average basket of goods, they are the cheapest of the "big four". Quality is the same, so is the loyalty gimmick costing us customers money to run that scheme - when we think we're actually saving money? Maybe not but it makes you wonder.
Supermarkets have very clever marketing strategies; this being just one of them. This, global warming (like flying oranges in from Spain), driving farmer's prices right down to virtual poverty, and buying land to prevent competition, is actually starting to make people go back to buying local produce at local, independent shops and farms - fruit, vegetables, and raw meat/poultry/fish especially. Supermarkets will never go away but independent shops are fortunately starting to make a very slow comeback.
Geoff M.
Posted by mr williams (Member # 1928) on :
quote: Since there are some fairly good cost reductions I use the thing, knowing good and well that Big Brother is definitely watching, but when it comes to the grocery store, I don't care what he sees.
Just be aware, though, that in Britain a few years ago HMRC (what you lovingly refer to as the IRS) tried to make the supermarkets hand over the records of all their loyalty club members so they could go on a "fishing" expedition.
The idea, quite simply, being that if you declared $10,000 on your tax return, how can you afford to spend $500 a week on smoked salmon and champagne?
This immediately polarises opinion between the "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" brigade and those who argue that the money could be quite legitimate and innocent people do not and should not have to explain themselves to the authorities, particularly when they hold a presumption of guilt against you.
There was a huge outcry, it was taken to court and the taxman lost.
A second point (and more in line with the original thread) - when I log in to Trainweb I get adverts for the UK Heathrow Express and First Great Western train services!!
Posted by mr williams (Member # 1928) on :
Oh, and can I point out to trainlady that I don't know how much asparagus costs over here because in the UK asparagus is regarded as a luxury vegetable! Apologies for going off topic but just for your info prices in the UK: Milk 75c for 20 oz carton Bread $1 (own brand)- $2.20 (premium brand) for 800 g loaf Gas $8 a gallon (actually it's over $10 but I've adjusted the price because our gallon is 25% larger than yours) Coke/Pepsi $1 for 11oz can Bud/Coors/Miller etc 11oz bottle in bar $6 Coffee in Starbucks (regular) $3.15
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Mr. Williams, thanks for the update; the last time I checked, the UK taxing authority was named HM Inland Revenue. However, I do note from the "retitle" that collection of revenue from foreign sources, i.e. Customs, has been combined into the agency.
Posted by train lady (Member # 3920) on :
Thanks Mr. Williams. Now another question..how does the price of train tickets compare with those here?
Posted by Geoff M (Member # 153) on :
Ah, the plethora of train tickets. Standard class from Swindon to London, about 75 miles, takes just over an hour. Peak time return (round trip) is £120-ish; off-peak £35-ish. If you manage to find an Advance ticket (only valid for a specific train) it can be much less, sometimes as low as a fiver each way (but always off-peak).
For the same £120 I've also managed get to Scotland and back with a clever combination of tickets - that's 8 hours each way, and my return was in a sleeper berth.
Plan ahead, travel off-peak, and you can grab a bargain. Travel peak time and you'll pay the earth - and may not even get a seat.
Geoff M.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
"I've heard" European rail fares are no bargain. Suffice to say, any of the six journeys I made overseas between 1960 and 1990, I had passes (Eurail or BritRail) which meant the only item of concern was Sleeper accommodation charges. In the UK, I thought such were always a bargain, but on the Continent...OUCH. BTW, my overseas riding includes the London-Paris "Night Ferry".
Not sure when or if I'll go overseas again; at this time all of my 'expat" family is residing "stateside" in New York or area.
After all, I'm not our Ms. Sojourner; travel just to travel at this stage in life is simply "not my thing", but I certainly respect her "gumption" for getting out there.
Posted by mr williams (Member # 1928) on :
[ the last time I checked, the UK taxing authority was named HM Inland Revenue. However, I do note from the "retitle" that collection of revenue from foreign sources, i.e. Customs, has been combined into the agency ]
The Inland Revenue was merged with Customs & Excise a few years ago and they are now called "Her Majesty's Revenue & Customs" (HMRC). Customs & Excise were also responsible for the collection of VAT (our Federal Sales Tax)and had far greater legal powers which now apply to the combined agency. There is no local sales tax in the UK but the federal tax is 17.5%
As for train fares, Geoff is spot on with his description. As a general rule of thumb for long distance routes, a walk-up far is eye-wateringly expensive. To travel to London at peak time (ie before 9.00 am) from Bristol, a trip of 120 miles, is about $140 economy class one way. If, however, you travel off peak and book in advance (in advance can be as late as 6.00 the previous evening) and subject to availability, you can get a 1st class return for just $100. The trouble is, they can get away with it because 90% of the people travelling up to London before 9.00 are on business (not commuting) and being re-imbursed by their employers.