A new passenger train route connecting San Luis Obispo County with downtown San Francisco—known as the Coast Daylight—is on track for service within a few years, thanks in part to constant lobbying by local transportation officials.
ON TRACK The passenger train route between San Luis Obispo and San Diego is one of the busiest in the country. Within a few years, local rail riders may be able to travel directly into downtown San Francisco as well.
PHOTO BY STEVE E. MILLER
Some $25 million has been allocated from Proposition 1B transit funds to cover the costs of the new route’s required signal improvements and sidings, where passenger trains can wait for freight trains to pass on the single track rail line, according to Pete Rodgers of the San Luis Obispo Council of Governments, SLOCOG. That’s the agency that lobbied successfully in the early ’90s for passenger trains to connect San Luis Obispo with Los Angeles and San Diego. The Pacific Surfliner, funded by 1990’s Proposition 116, has been carrying local riders south since 1995.
“The Pacific Surfliner corridor is really an untold success story—it’s the second busiest rail route in the U.S.A., after Boston/New York,” Rodgers said.
A special party for passenger trains is planned for National Train Day on May 10 at the San Luis Obispo Amtrak station, at Santa Rosa Street and Railroad Avenue. The date celebrates the completion of the transcontinental railroad in 1869, when the Golden Spike was driven to connect the tracks across the country.
From noon to 4 p.m., participants will be treated to railroad photography, a display of scale model trains, engineer’s caps and folding paper locomotives for the kids, and a volunteer host to help passengers plan their trips. Four trains are scheduled to arrive and depart during the afternoon.
Railroad fan David Weisman serves as a volunteer host most weekends at the Amtrak station in SLO, and he’s seen a marked increase in ridership in recent months.
“Central Coast residents are particularly lucky. Our trains traverse some of the most scenic mileage in the world, whether it’s 120 miles along the cliffs and bluffs of the Pacific Ocean to the south, or the twisting mountain passes and lush farmlands to the north,” Weisman said.
The prospect of reviving the Coast Daylight line, which ran between Los Angeles and San Francisco in the 1950s and ’60s, is “big news,” according to SLOCOG’s Rodgers. State officials are ready to fund up to eight new train sets, consisting of two passenger cars and a locomotive each, to cover the upsurge in passenger numbers, Rodgers said.
“Rail growth is unprecedented,” he noted. “California’s investment has been paid off several times over.”
The state’s total annual cost for all passenger train travel is $80 million. That’s the cost of just one highway interchange, such as the Prado Road interchange, Rodgers said.
Rail fares cover about half the cost of providing the service, with tickets from SLO to San Diego running about $50 each way, and a projected fare of around $30 to travel from SLO to San Francisco.
“I like the fact that I can get work done when I take the train, or I can relax, have a glass of wine, and meet interesting people. Plus I like the fact that it’s a ‘green’ way to travel,” Rodgers said.
Train travel produces 70 percent fewer greenhouse gases compared to typical automobile travel, making it healthier for everyone, he noted.
A California bond measure planned for the November ballot would provide $9 billion in funding for a high-speed rail route through the Central Valley, connecting Los Angeles and San Francisco with a three-hour travel time. But that measure has “nothing in it for the Central Coast,” he said.
SLOCOG is considering formally opposing the measure, and pushing instead for improvements in the coast rail routes.
As Rodgers concluded, “Passenger trains will be increasingly important as traffic congestion gets worse and gas prices rise higher. Plus the older demographic would rather sit on a train and travel more comfortably.”
Posted by Hoop (Member # 4607) on :
quote: Some $25 million has been allocated from Proposition 1B transit funds to cover the costs of the new route’s required signal improvements and sidings, where passenger trains can wait for freight trains to pass on the single track rail line, according to Pete Rodgers of the San Luis Obispo Council of Governments, SLOCOG.
Oh great. Let's spend $25 million so Amtrak can sit in the hole.... Posted by amtraxmaniac (Member # 2251) on :
Opposing the high speed rail line along hwy 99? Good luck. The central valley corridor serves 5x the polulation base. I agree with the need of additional coastal services, but not if its in leu of high speed service through the valley. Traffic is just as dense, if not more dense along hwy 99 as it is along hwy 101.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
quote:Originally posted by 20thCenturyLimited: http://www.newtimesslo.com/news/137/A California bond measure planned for the November ballot would provide $9 billion in funding for a high-speed rail route through the Central Valley, connecting Los Angeles and San Francisco with a three-hour travel time. But that measure has “nothing in it for the Central Coast,” he said.
SLOCOG is considering formally opposing the measure, and pushing instead for improvements in the coast rail routes.
Can't these dolts understand that if the California high speed down the valley is built and has good ridership, and it certainly should, that it will get people thinking about rail in many other situations, including theirs.
We have got to get some new passenger rail project built somewhere in an area that it will attract and hold good ridership, and these "mine or no where" idiots are hurting everybody, including themselves.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Possibly Amtrak has established to what extent the "Stublight's" business was impacted by the "broken" connection with a through Starlight as well as measuring what was saved by not having to operate Sleeping and Dining Cars over the truncated route. What measurement likely remains to be perfected is to what extent patronage will be affected, and I can only presume favorably, if there was again direct SF to La train service.
LA passengers could still have a same day connection with the now Oakland-Seattle Starlight at Martinez. Those passengers desiring an all rail LA Seattle journey would have to overnight somewhere en route.
In short, there could be some cost savings and with disruption only to passengers traveling, say, Salinas and San Luis to points on the truncated Starlight - and even that could be addressed with an "AmVan" or if necessary, an Ambus.
Finally, I guess a new name would have to be found for the truncated Starlight as the SP's name, the Cascade, has sort of been :"spoken for".
Posted by amtraksupporter (Member # 5619) on :
The article raises some questions.
Does the focus of the article on San Luis Obispo to downtown San Francisco, as opposed to a San Luis Obispo, San Jose, Oakland, Sacramento (a continuation of a Capitol run) with a Caltrain connection to San Francisco or a second Los Angeles Sacramento train reflect some local sentiment and analysis of the alternatives, or was that just the way the reporter wrote it?
Is a substantial part of the problem there a need for a morning departure to the Bay area and an evening departure from there and a recognition that a second, "Night" Starlight would not solve any San Luis Obispo problems?
The article stated: "Some $25 million has been allocated from Proposition 1B transit funds to cover the costs of the new route's required signal improvements and sidings."
The proposition passed in 2006.
The improvements and sidings referred to are just as much needed for today's Starlight as the projected Daylight. According to my June 1941 reprint Official Guide, the Morning Daylight did the 423 miles between Los Angeles and San Jose in a car competitive time of 8 1/2 hours, departing 8:15 and arriving 4:45. The Starlight today does it in the far less car competitive time of 10 hours 12 minutes, departing 10:15 a.m. and arriving 8:27 p.m. A reasonable Amtrak goal would be restoration of the 1941 times.
Have $25 million in funds that could do something about the Starlight schedule problem been sitting around unused since 2006? If so, why hasn't some someone raised a stink about it?
Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
LA passengers could still have a same day connection with the now Oakland-Seattle Starlight at Martinez. Those passengers desiring an all rail LA Seattle journey would have to overnight somewhere en route.
************************ Mr. Norman:
Could you elaborate? What sort of possibilities and time schedules do you think there might be? I still like the idea of a through train from LA to Seattle. However, a seperate train from Martinez to Seattle would be interesting.
The problem now, at least for me here in Northern Calif, is the late time the Starlight gets to possible stations to board..for me either Davis or Sacramento (11:30PM into Davis and midnight for SAC). The present schedule has the Starlight getting into Martinez, from LA, about 12 hrs after departure in LA.
If the "Daylight" could leave LA at 6:00 AM..it would just be 6:00 PM when it arrives in Martinez. Lets say a 1-2 hr hiatus for a late train, then the overnight Martinez to Seattle train could leave at 7 or 8 PM and get into Seattle around 6 PM. It sure would make station connections and boarding much easier.
If LA to Bay Area passengers were to overnight in the bay area, then the Martinez to Seattle train would, probably, leave sometime in the morning. That would be a very long trip if it was a "daylight" (coach-only seating)..probably not get into Portland until late in the evening or early morning.
Richard
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Richard, the connection would be with a San Joaquin Bus/Train in much the same manner as passengers ticketed 3-LAX-14 are routed in the event of a misconnect.
OAK-SEA would essentially be the SP Cascade. The LAX-SFP would be the SP Coast Daylight.
Since the newspaper article essentially says nothing beyond that Train Day will be celebrated at the SLO station, as well as whatever the station's docent interviewed chose to comment upon, we must note there is no mention therein of additional service. With the Federal moratorium regarding no new service remaining in place, and that the State seems to favor the San Joaquin with funding, one has to conclude that if San Francisco is to be served by Amtrak, then the existing Starlight will be truncated.
Posted by amtraxmaniac (Member # 2251) on :
Now here's an interesting (or maybe just plain creative) proposal. California, Oregon, and Washington all have State sponsored trains. Say Amtrak as a national carrier does kick the bucket. What is the possiblity that the three states DOT's might band together to save and take over the route...somewhat in the way Texas and Oklahoma work together with The Heartland flyer...or Missouri and Illinois work together with the Midwest Corridor trains? It may be quite an undertaking, but all three states may feel they have much to gain and even more to loose without the Starlight. Could these three states in essence, take over complete control of the Starlight?
Another creative thought I had was this: where could high speed rail play into the picture for the starlight? It could as much as HALF the time it takes to get from LA to SEA and vice versa. The Starlight could still run its coastal course-serving the HWY 101 communities, whild passengers in the LA area just board the bullet in the early evening hours and catch the Starlight in the bay area. The two trains would practically compliment eachother. This may ALSO allow the Starlight to leave Los Angeles with LESS cars, which may prove more efficient. This also provides connecting service late in the day, so passengers could start their vacations/business right after they clcok out from their 9 to 5. Also, this turns an LA to SEA trip that was previously almost 36 hrs to a smidgen over 26-I think it has been reported that the high speed train will connect LA to SF in about 2 hrs.
In terms of additional train service, an early departure from SLO may be preferrable to them, but I would MUCH rather see an overnight train that LEAVES LA in the evening and connects Southern California to the CZ out of EMY. I think that has the most potential for Patronige.
Posted by amtraxmaniac (Member # 2251) on :
Right now in order to get from LA to SLC or DEN, requires a 1:15am bus ride from LA to BFL, 5:00am train from BFL to STO, and then ANOTHER bus from STO to SAC. This may be exciting and adventurous to a young foamer like myself, but is not exactly inviting to a first time traveler.
Posted by Hoop (Member # 4607) on :
quote:Originally posted by amtraxmaniac: Right now in order to get from LA to SLC or DEN, requires a 1:15am bus ride from LA to BFL, 5:00am train from BFL to STO, and then ANOTHER bus from STO to SAC. This may be exciting and adventurous to a young foamer like myself, but is not exactly inviting to a first time traveler.
Or, if you don't mind an overnight motel stay, ride #14 to SAC, stay overnight across the street at the Vagabond Inn, and then pick up #6 the next morning.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
Neither the article nor a lot of the comments here are making a lot of sense based on what I know about this thing.
1. The train is not going to be a substitute for the Starlight. The Starlight will still run much as now on the same route up the east side of San Francisco Bay, but maybe with a little more reliability due to the work being planned north of SLO.
2. The train being planned is an additional service, probably an extension of the existing SLO to Los Angeles train. Its northern terminus will be Caltrain's San Francisco station at 4th and King Streets in San Francisco, the ex-Southern Pacific station. North of San Jose it will be running on the Caltrain commuter line tracks up the Penninsula. It will make stops between San Francisco and SLO, but I do not know how many. If you want to use it to access East Bay places, then you would either have to change to one of the Capitol Corridor trains at San Jose or use the Amtrak bus between the Caltrain station and Emeryville.
3. It is not intended to make a connection with the California Zephyr. If that is to happen, then an overnight train will be needed. Maybe the discussed extension of the CZ between Oakland and LA?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Mr. Harris, if there is to be a second train over the route, will it be funded at Federal or Local (presumaly State) level?
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
Mr. Norman:
This is to be a state supported train. This whole thread is Shakespearean (Much Ado About Nothing) in that the state is supposed to have decided to spend some money on improving the signals on the ex SP Coast Line north of San Luis Obispo. Exactly or approximately when the work will start is not stated. As to the start up of the train, the news article says, "in a few years" which really means very little. No "next year" or "in 2010" or anything at all specific.
The thing that really bugs me with these characters in SLO is that they are making statements in opposition to the High Speed Rail plan because it does not serve their two-bit town.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
In short, Mr. Harris, the station docent there at SLO had a reporter's ear, rattled off about topics on which he had little knowledge and a lot of fantasy, and the reporter was simply too uninformed to properly "vette" her story.
Problem is that she has even less informed readers out there expecting that "the new train to San Francisco" will start running tomorrow - National Train Day.
Small town journalism at work!
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
They've been saying the Coast Daylight would start next year for about 7 or 8 years. Until this year's state budget deficit was unveiled things did seem to be falling into place, but now I'm not so sure.
I'm with you, George, on the stupidity of SLOCOG on the high speed rail. I guess this guy is too afraid of competition. He's really talking about two separate markets. HSR wouldn't be competing with the Daylight for SLO county passengers, just for endpoint to endpoint travelers. And even with delays, the Daylight is likely to be in place well before the HSR project is ready. This is just another example of politicians thinking only of themselves and not the big picture.
Here in Monterey County a half-cent sales tax increase has been proposed to pay for transportation. Last year the proposal included a small percentage of the money for the Caltrain extension to Salinas. The "leadership" of the county's two largest industuries. agriculture and hospitality, kicked and screamed and said they wouldn't support the tax because Caltrain would serve commuters, not farmers and tourists. So the rail part was taken out. TAMC (Transportation Agency for Monterey County) said they could find rail funds from other sources, but I think they caved in too easily. There is a lot of popular support for rail around here. People keep asking me "when are they going to start that train they've been talking about?"
When will the deciders start looking at the big picture???
Posted by amtraxmaniac (Member # 2251) on :
Mr Harris: Maybe I'm talking apples and oranges, so let me clarify. I KNOW the existing Starlight isn't going ANYWHERE. With a high speed connection from LA to the Bay Area though that frees up MORE EQUIPMENT to place on the Central Coast. Central Coast passengers will pretty much have the train all to themselves (with the exception of So Cal railfans) all the way to the bay area. AS far as the connection to the CZ-I realize that I'm talking about A COMPLETE DIFFERENT BIRD than what they are currently proposing. But since the Desert Wind was eliminated umpteen years ago, it would be nice for Southern Californians to have a connection to the CZ once more, no? In terms of SLOCOG, there no different than any other Cities COG. When monies are short, its 'what's in it for us?"
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
Back to the future it looks like to me.
Did anyone feel an earthquake at 1 Market Center?
Here's my question: I see the operaitonal need of the Bayshore commute. I see Mr Toy's operational need to extend the commute, at least a couple times a day, down into Monterey and Pacific Grove (anyone care to bet the Del Monte actually made money on avoidable costs, considering its clientele)?
All of California keeps growing dramatically each time I pop in for a brief return. My gut tells me the demographics support SLO-City just as much as they support Bakersfield-Jack London Square.
We all have to remember the Coast Daylight, SP Trains 98-99, and the San Joaquin Daylights, were the last trains standing. The Owl, the West Coast, the Lark, the Coaster, there was plenty of service on the Coast as well as in the Central Valley.
Richard Oglesby taught me History of California so many years ago. He introduced me to the adage: Everything old is new again.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
I picture the high speed rail system being aimed at three primary markets (I do not know what the official line is on this subject): 1. People that currently fly 2. People that currently drive 3. People that currently decide to not make the trip at all because of the hassle.
It will also and unavoidably take a lot of the people now riding the San Joquin trains, as why would I take a train to Fresno, for example, that takes 4 hours when there is one that does it in about 1.5 hours? Although, given enought price differential, there may still be a singificant market for the 4 hour service witness the fairly large numbers of people that are willing to take about 2.5 hours plus to ride New York to Philly on NJT + SEPTA rather than spend about 3 times the amount to do it on Amtrak in 1.5 hours or less.
As far as affecting the Coast Starlight ridership, probably not much. If the people on the Starlight wanted to go faster on the ground they could already do so by going through Bakersfield on the Bus-Train setup.
Mr. Toy: Why would the powers that be in Monterey think the train would not serve any tourists? As a fairly regular rider on Caltrain, but not at commuter times, I can say first hand that there are always tourists and one time or irregular riders on those trains.
Right now there are 3 trains that go beyond San Jose to Gilroy, about 32 miles, but all northbound morning southbound evening. We would be talking another 32 miles to Salinas. Additional equipment requirement should be zero. Maybe all concerned should be thinking in terms of having a southbound morning northbound evening train or two added to the mix.
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
quote:Originally posted by George Harris: Mr. Toy: Why would the powers that be in Monterey think the train would not serve any tourists? As a fairly regular rider on Caltrain, but not at commuter times, I can say first hand that there are always tourists and one time or irregular riders on those trains.
Probably because Salinas is not a tourist destination like Monterey, and because the proposed Caltrain schedules are aimed specifically at commuters. And probably because the movers and shakers in the local hospitality industry are a cranky conservative bunch of old fogies who drive everywhere in their Mercedes and Cadillac Escalades, and assume their customers do the same.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)