Although this apparent "factoid of life" has yet to be confirmed at Grand Luxe's own website. It is being actively discussed over at another rail site. However, here is confirmation from a travel (not necessarily rail) site:
Likely, GL's apparent demise puts up the Adios drumhead for any future "luxo" operations. Guess the only way to experience today what I experienced "back when' is either to sign up for a "PV" rail tour or 'get connected' to the extent needed to be invited aboard a Class I's "executrain".
Posted by Floridian (Member # 8304) on :
Perhaps this is a golden opportunity for Amtrak to pick up some rolling stock on the cheap They could charge a few bucks extra for folks to ride in a "fancy" car to defray the initial investment.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
What a pity. I rode one of those GrandLuxe cuts behind No. 6 last fall and enjoyed the experience immensely, especially in the dining car. I'm sorry to see the operation collapse.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
It certainly would be a great opportunity for Amtrak to augument the single level fleet with cars mechanically compatible and environmentally compliant - and "on the cheap".
But anyone want to place their bets on that coming to pass?
I'm sure cars such as Obs Sandy Creek and the (stainless steel) Domes will find homes amongst the "PV" fleet.
Posted by irishchieftain (Member # 1473) on :
I'm wondering what other rail-related ventures Rader (ironic-sounding name) is ready to "exit".
Posted by royaltrain (Member # 622) on :
Such a shame. I wanted to travel on Grand Luxe last year when they were supposed to hook up with the S.W. Chief from L.A. to Chicago. I did receive my deposit back when they cancelled my run, but I think Grand Luxe are probably bankrupt since they are telling the customers to look to their credit card companies for refunds. Probably the declining economy is affecting the luxury transportation market.
Posted by Robert L (Member # 3144) on :
One big question! At out local passenger rail advo group meeting, we were talking about the lack of Amtrak equipment to just sustain the level of service with the current crush of passengers [not even adding complete train sets, which we would like to see]. I suggested private cars held by other rail advo groups in our state, be used as a stop-gap help for add-on Amtrak service. Those with some knowledge said that these cars [good enough for the advo rail groups to sell seats for private runs], were not "Amtrak compatible," and therefore, end of story. Well, help. What makes or breaks a car for "Amtrak compatability," [I believe one big item is something about transit between cars] and what does anyone think would be the price for establishing this kind of "ready reserve" to the Amtrak fleet [I believe back in the day the railroads with passenger rail service always had a quick backup fleet to call up]?
Posted by RR4me (Member # 6052) on :
Well I guess my most practical goal now is VIA rail Canadian.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
The Los Angeles Times travel blog also says GrandLuxe is reportedly shutting down . . . and hints that a lot of people will lose their money.
FORT LUPTON, Colo. - Late on Tuesday, August 26, GrandLuxe Rail Journeys Chairman Tom Rader confirmed that the company will cease operations tomorrow. Shutdown will officially occur when its "Great Northwestern National Parks" train trip arrives in Tacoma, Wash. [see August 2008 "Passenger"].
Reading from a statement to passengers booked on trips beginning with the Aug. 30 Tacoma departure, Rader said, "All future trips will not operate. We know this raises many questions, including, 'Will I get my money back?' At this time, we just do not have many answers to your questions."
Rader went on to say that he was "personally deeply sorry we failed to provide your trip," and noted that the best way for people who had booked future trips to contact the company was via an email to reservations@grandluxerail.com, in addition to the toll free phone number at (800) 320-4206.
The decision to shut down came so quickly Tuesday afternoon that employees rotating back to the train after two weeks off had not heard the news by the following morning and the Web site still did not indicate that future trips would not operate. It is not clear whether GrandLuxe will actually declare bankruptcy or what will happen to the equipment, which presumably will deadhead back to the company's Fort Lupton headquarters tomorrow.
Some of the train's wood-paneled luxury sleepers, diners, and lounges were refurbished in 1989 as part of the American European Express. When that venture declared bankruptcy in 1991, CSX held the cars as collateral for unpaid bills.
A formal decision on what will happen next will likely depend on the amount of cash Grand Luxe actually has on hand from paid-in-full fares for trips that have yet to be taken and payment obligations to creditors. - Bob Johnston
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
I am now prepared to consider this story as "confirmed'.
A minor note to Mr. Johnston of TRAINS: A person, living or fictitious, i.e. a corporation, PETITIONS for Bankruptcy protection, as distinct from 'declares'. A bankruptcy court will then, 99% of the time, adjudge the petitioner a Bankrupt.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
For what it's worth, Googling the following two phrases resulted in:
"Petition for bankruptcy": 90,300 hits
"Declare bankruptcy": 492,000 hits
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Thank you Mr. Kisor for establishing that the phrase "declare bankruptcy" is part of the vernacular.
It appears that if a passenger desires protection from a transportation company default, they should consider the purchase of insurance coverage such as outlined in the linked material:
Finally, there is an interesting point noted in discussion of this matter over at another site, and that involves the Social Security/Railroad Retirement issue. As likely anyone within or retired from the railroad industry knows, the contributions (tax) required from both employer and employee are considerably higher for RRTA than that for Social Security. While under the latter Act, employer and employee make equal contributions, RRTA calls for an employer contribution roundly treble that of the employee. What I must wonder if GL had "paid into" RRTA from the "get go", or did they "pay into" Social Security on the strength they were a subsidiary of a non railroad parent, Colorado Railcar. If there was a subsequent redetermination made that GL employees were "railroad employees' as defined within the RRTA, then the assessment of back taxes could prove to be very....VERY costly.
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
So sorry to hear about the demise of the GL -- I can't say I'm that surprised, however, ever since GL got the bright idea to add their "excursion trains" onto the end of regularly scheduled AMTRAK trains, thus subjecting the "GL experience" to all the delays that are common on AMTRAK, plus all the intermediate passenger stops that AMTRAK trains routinely make (thus no longer making the "GL experience" a "luxury" experience).
I think several of us here on the forum ought to pitch in and buy an "Adios drumhead" for Mr. Norman for a Christmas gift!!!! (he seems to talk about them quite a bit......) Whaddaya think?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Be assured, Mr. Kimmel, that whatever collector holds the Adios drumhead to which I make reference, would want "heap big wampum" for such.
Posted by irishchieftain (Member # 1473) on :
quote:thus subjecting the "GL experience" to all the delays that are common on AMTRAK
Was there a time when GL or "predecessor" AOE was "given the highball" over freight trains?
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
I don't really know, but during the time of the AOE, there were maybe 9 or 10 excursions every year, most of which took routes that AMTRAK does not use. Maybe I am wrong, but I assumed that the host freight railroads worked with AOE and possibly allowed some "exceptions" (possibly through high incentive payments)to these rare "luxury trips" on their lines. I have never heard of an AOE excursion train arriving at its destination 10 or 12 hours late........
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
FWIW,
Colorado Railcar has stopped down their web presence to a single page:
4 images, 2 email addys, 1 phone number, 1 physical address. That's it for CRC.
GL still has a full website, but calling the 800 number, the operator said "we are ceasing business as of tonight."
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
Interesting. I was under the impression that only the Grandluxe operation failed, but given the disappearance of most of the Colorado Railcar website it may be the failure was with the parent company and not Grandluxe itself.
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
This is not the first time one of Tom Rader's operations has gone out the door. I find it interesting that he's recommending credit card refund provisions. Mr Norman, you're the CPA (albeit retired) here. To me, I see a bankruptcy filing in the offing, with the discharge to Visa, Mastercard and such being a pittance on the dollar.
I would hope the Colorardo Attorney General does a criminal forensic audit of both GL and CRC. To me, the worst case is we have a Ponzi scheme on our hands. The best case is Rader is cleared.
That will not help PV owners much at all in their relationships with Amtrak. I think I'll email Jack Deasy.
Posted by rresor (Member # 128) on :
This is truly unfortunate. I go back a long way with the cars used by Grand Luxe. Visiting a friend in Tallahassee, FL in the late 1980s, we went over to Panama City to do some railfanning and managed to get a tour of the cars, which were then being refurbished for American European Express. Later, I spent part of my honeymoon in 1991 on an AEE train from PHL to CHI -- my wife still talks about the wonderful trip we had.
I followed the bankruptcy of AEE, its reincarnation as AOE, and the various trips AOE ran. I would have loved to take a repeat trip, but with two kids to put through college...and a mortgage to pay...I thought, "Maybe for my 60th birthday". Well, that's still four years away, so maybe we'll ride the "Canadian" instead.
I'm sorry to see that, in the end, luxury train voyages weren't able to make a go of it in North America. I hope the cars (which are gorgeous) find good homes.
Posted by MontanaJim (Member # 2323) on :
This is perfectally understandable from what i heard of how they ran their operations. I just came back from a visit to my hometown of Livingston, MT. My mother works at the depot there. This depot is one of the best designed depots in the country, designed by the same architects as Grand Central Station. But it wasnt on the Grandluxe tour itinerary--instead they were bussed straight to and from yellowstone and grand teton parks. I also heard that guests were hurried everywhere and didnt even have time to buy souvenirs. Go read some of the trip reports about this company--apparently bedding was rarely changed and clean towels only given out once during a week-long trip. And the company had a grade of F from the Better Business Bureau. So no, I am not the least surprised this company went under.
Posted by MontanaJim (Member # 2323) on :
dont know what caused the collapse? ah, maybe not knowing how to run a business, perhaps?
------------------------------
End of the line for rail tour operator GrandLuxe By SARAH KARUSH, Associated Press Writer 17 minutes ago
WASHINGTON - A company that offered luxurious rail tours aboard refurbished vintage cars and was a major charter customer of Amtrak has gone under.
ADVERTISEMENT
GrandLuxe Rail Journeys abruptly ceased operations last week.
"We are financially unable to continue operations," the company said in an Aug. 26 note to people booked for upcoming tours. It said it did not know whether people would get their money back.
It is unclear what caused the collapse. Phone calls Wednesday to GrandLuxe headquarters in Evergreen, Colo., were greeted by a message saying the mailbox was full.
Bob Whitley, president of the U.S. Tour Operators Association, said other luxury tourism companies do not appear to be suffering, despite a soft tourism market overall.
"The only area doing really well is the luxury side," he said. "It's less affected by the economy and the weak dollar."
GrandLuxe was not an association member.
For Amtrak, the closure of GrandLuxe, formerly known as American Orient Express before it came under new ownership in 2006, means the loss of several million dollars in an annual revenue, Amtrak spokesman Cliff Black said. He declined to be more specific.
GrandLuxe relied on Amtrak to pull its train on various scenic routes. The national passenger railroad provided locomotives and engine crews for the trips, which lasted seven to 10 days and cost upward of $4,000. Amtrak did not provide onboard staff or marketing for those tours, Black said.
Last year, the companies attempted a closer partnership, announcing with much fanfare that GrandLuxe cars — including spacious sleepers, dining rooms and lounge areas — would be attached to certain regularly scheduled Amtrak trains during the holiday season. The idea was to offer a shorter, less expensive option with the same five-course meals and other luxury amenities as GrandLuxe's usual tours. Amtrak helped market the service, dubbed GrandLuxe Limited, through its loyalty program, Guest Rewards.
However, the service, originally planned for three routes, was scaled back to just one train, the California Zephyr between Chicago and Emeryville, Calif. The partnership was not renewed this year.
Tom Weakley, an 18-time GrandLuxe passenger from Indianapolis, said he was extremely disappointed by the company's closure. He had trips booked for November and March, but has been assured by his credit card company that he'll get his money back.
It's unclear what will become of the company's 1940s and 1950s passenger cars and whether another company will try to operate the train. Amtrak is unlikely to be interested, Black said.
Whitley said he knew of no other companies offering high-end rail journeys in the U.S. Succeeding with such a service would require skilled marketing, Whitley said.
"It's not been extremely popular in the U.S. because it's unknown," he said. "Rail in the U.S. is not like in other parts of the world."
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Finally, there is confirmation from a completely recognized newssource - Associated Press.
Now if GL's website will only get the message.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
Finally?
The Los Angeles Times travel editor is not a completely recognized news source?
Nor the Denver Post or Rocky Mountain News? They had the story last week. So did a number of business magazines.
As for the GL website, the webmaster was probably let go with all the rest. It will disappear when the lease runs out, whenever that might be.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
Ahhhh, the webmaster.
As chairman of the board for a non-proffit community arts organization which just changed webmasters last month, I can tell you firsthand that you are nowhere without an enthsiastic and capable webmaster.
As is likely the case and GrandLuxe pinkslipped the webmaster, I doubt he or she would be very enthusiastic about continuing to work the site.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Hmmm.... I just clicked on the link and it's still up, as if they were still in business. S'okay, I can still look at it and imagine myself on one of those trips.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
Strange ... the link was broken yesterday, as GBN said, but now it's back up. But those cars are still on sale.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Agree; the link is again operative.
Makes me wonder what they're 'smokin in Raderland".
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
They could charge a few bucks extra for folks to ride in a "fancy" car to defray the initial investment.