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Just curious when passanger services ceased to operate in Chatanooga.
chrisg Member # 2488
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By the 1970s, declining rail traffic to Chattanooga forced Southern Railway to close the doors of Terminal Station. The Birmingham Special, Southern Railway train No. 18, became the last regular passenger train to pass through the Terminal Station. On August 11, 1970 at 11:35 p.m. the Birmingham Special departed Terminal Station and headed to Washington D.C
George Harris Member # 2077
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Amazingly / suspiciously enough, back when there were three trains on the Bristol - Knoxville - Chattanooga route, the B'han Special was always the least patronized. Both the Tennessean and the Pelican had, for that line at least, moderately good patronage. In their last years, the Tennessean and Pelican also tended to have several piggyback trailers on their rear, the B'ham Special less likely to have any.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Look what we start Mr. Scott C; I couldn't resist:
Frances Langford was still performing when I served in 'Nam 67-68. When I was once at her restaurant in Jensen Beach FL during 1983, she did a "meet and greet' focusing in on tables where patrons were of age to have seen her perform. With my Father and his (2nd) wife, she smiled and stopped - at age 70, she still could command a presence.
Judy McFarland Member # 4435
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Sort of on topic....
Roy Rogers (now I AM dating myself) got some new cowboy boots & went for a ride on Trigger to try them out. As he was riding along, a cougar jumped out from some brush and lunged at Roy. Fortunately the cougar missed Roy's leg, but he did take a bite out of one of the new boots. Roy went home & told Dale the whole story. The next day, Roy & Dale were out riding when she spied a cougar ahead on the trail. And so she said:
"Pardon me, Roy, is that the cat who chewed your new shoe?"
(It may help to sing that last line. . . )
(My late husband loved that story but he always mangled the punch line - Pardon me, Roy, is that the cat who ate your new boot?)
bill haithcoat Member # 6773
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The Birmingham Special was the last to leave from the Terminal Station (Now the Chattanooga Choo Choo Hotel)as noted above. And of course that is the station to which trains came from NYC.
But after that, the remains of the once-famed Georgian was actually the last to leave the city. It left from Union Station (now completely torn down, unlike the Terminal Station)on Amtrak Day May 1, 1971
I was on it, naturally. Very little was made of it.
The Georgian (and the Dixie Flagler) are and were my two all time sentimental favorite trains.
palmland Member # 4344
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Chattanooga has to be one of my favorite RR towns. Probably started with my first trip there in 1956 on the Dixie Flyer from Guthrie, KY. A treat from my grandmother for my brother and I to see all the sights there as part of our annual visit with her.
We were disappointed because the heavyweight sleeper advertised in the L&N timetable had been replaced with one of those new streamlined sleepers - normally assigned to the Dixieland. Spent most of the trip in the rear vestibule of that car hearing the flagman and our grandmother tell railroad stories (some of her brothers had worked for the railroad). Also a great deal of talk about that scandalous new rock and roll star from Memphis.
Subsequent trips found me there on trips on the Georgian, Birmingham Special, Pelican and Royal Palm.
Bill, we're counting on you to get passenger service back to that great town. But, while the Georgian was a very good train, the Pan American was our sentimental favorite.
bill haithcoat Member # 6773
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Palmland, good to read your post. I remember about you riding through on the Dixie Flyer looking out the rear pullman.
I think about that every time I drive through that area. (actualy I live in Atlanta these days).
A note about the sleeper, in the summer some of the Dixieland sleepers were not needed thus were put on the Dixie Flyer for the summer.
I have fond memories of all the trains you mention.
I guess you have visited the Chattanooga Choo Choo off and on through the years.
notelvis Member # 3071
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I was about to mention that the Georgian lasted until Amtrak day and was thus the last passenger train to serve Chattanooga......but see that Bill got there first.
Palmland, I may have overlooked this before BUT are you a native of Western Kentucky? I spent some time trainwatching around Guthrie and Bowling Green (although even Amtrak's Floridian was a distant memory) while stationed at Ft. Campbell.
George Harris Member # 2077
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Having grown up in Memphis with one of my favorite downtown activities being to be there to watch the 15 to 20 car City of New Orleans step along the river bluffs, in either direction on its Chicago to New Orleans run, I never could understand why the idea of the fast daylight coach train never caught on elsewhere. One of my imaginary schedules was the Dixie Flyer turned into a fast daylight train from Chicago to Atlanta. Would have made a nice connection at Nashville so you could get a fast day schedule between Chicago and Birmingham/Montgomery out of it as well. In the same manner that the City of NO launched out of Chicago about one hour ahead of the City of Miami, the Dixie Flyer would be about one hour ahead of the Dixieland.
bill haithcoat Member # 6773
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George, you and I have so many of the same memories. My sister lived in Memphis for a awhile. I was thrilled first time I saw the n.b. CONO,heading my way from the left. Like a giant python (a good thing since I like snakes).
I had assumed it was still a mere seven cars long. This thing was about 20 cars. Fantastic.
Even more meaningful I don't think I was looking for it, just heard the whstle, just wandering around downtown in that park.
About Chattanooga,my parents and grandparents grew up on the Dixie Flyer,so I appreciate it also. First time mother and I rode the Flagler(instead of the Flyer) from Chattanooga to Tullahoma--I told her the train would not stop at all. Who believed a kid in the second grade?
When we got to Tullahoma mother was breathless, she could not stop telling daddy that we didnt stop at all---not at all!(hey, maybe I knew what I was talking about, after all)
palmland Member # 4344
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Notelvis - I'm not a western KY native (father worked in Wilmington, DE). But my mother (and of course grandparents) were from Clarksville, TN - just a few miles over the state line.
My grandmother frequently talked about 'those boys from Fort Campbell' - not always in a favorable manner. A little too rowdy for her southern tastes (I'm sure you would have been an exception).
We spent a good part of our summers there - hence my love of all things L&N. We still make a point of finding an excuse to return every year or so, which includes some train watching in Guthrie and, on a couple occasions, rides with RJ Corman on their train to Cumberland City from Guthrie - now the end of L&N's Memphis branch from Bowling Green.
George Harris Member # 2077
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The train that was the origin of the song was probably either the Birmingham Special or the Pelican, most likely the B'han Special. I say that based on the assumption that the singers are in New York or some other northeastern point.
According to the November 1945 Official Guide, the B'ham Special left New York with three sleepers, one each for Knoxville, Chattanooga, and Birmingham. Two more were added at Washington, one for B'ham and the other for Memphis. Even more interesting, the train these cars were in out of New York was Pennsy 127 which was the West Coast Champion and was listed as "no coaches between New York and Washington". Coach passengers had to leave New York 15 minutes earlier on train 123.
The Pelican sleepers, one to New Orleans and one to Shreveport, left New York in PRR train 139 at 6:55pm which carried sleepers that went to three different trains at Washington.
Ocala Mike Member # 4657
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What about the references in the song to "Track 29", I believe it was, and the departure time of "a quarter to four"? Are they consistent with the B'ham Special or the Pelican?
bill haithcoat Member # 6773
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As a native of Chattanooga I made an early connection about "quarter to 4" since the BHM Special left Washington at 3:50 for many years. Wrong city, yes, and not exact time but close enough to qualify for poetic license.
Departure from NYC varied more. It really did not come as a whole train from NYC, none of them did (in my lifetime, at least). The trains had though sleepers from NYC but not through coaches.
I have heard it said of the following trains that they were the original inspiration for the song: Pelican,Birmingham Special, Tennessean and even some how some way the Dixie Flyer from Chicago to Florida.
I personally vote for the BHM Special and find it seems more and more people think so.
What does seem certain is that in the early 1900's a newspaper reporter playfully coined the name Chattanooga Choo Choo when service began from Cincinnati to Chattanooga.
In other words, the name existed and apparently stayed alive for almost 40 years before some body made a song out of a trip which may or may not have happened from to NYC to CHA
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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The real license is "have your Ham and Eggs in Carolina", as none of the trains on the PRR-SRY-N&W-SRY route went near either state.
But alas "(quarter to) Four' and "(Balti)more" seem to rhyme, as does "(nothing could be)finah".."(Eggs in) Caralinah".
Considering how the Appalachian topography was stacked against any swift movement of these trains, it is no wonder they had become "jerkwater Locals' by the later 50's while the Meteors and Champs were still "bringing 'em on down".
No wonder the party was over well before A-Day (some vestige of the B'ham Spl survived as a Coach only Wash-Bristol run until "The End"). No wonder the Incorporators ruled out any possible Amtrak service through the region.
bill haithcoat Member # 6773
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Funny thing about the Carolina reference, I always assumed the same thing you did. But guess what, I recently acquired some reprints of old TIES Magazine(Southern Railroad's employee magazine.
And there actually was a time when(in the 20's or 30's, don't have them near me) the BHM Special went through the Carolinas. In fact it went to BHM the same way done today, through Atlanta.
But this just for historical info. Does not seem likely that somebody rode a train to ATL or BHM and used enough license to call it Chattanooga, so this gets us back to where we were, just wanted to note the old unfamiliar routing, which I had zero info about.
palmland Member # 4344
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How about that Bill, here is the schedule for the Birmingham Special in the April 1932 Offcial Guide of the Railways (which I stumbled on in the old B&O Freight warehouse in Baltimore).
Lv New York 11:30 am, Balt. 3:30pm, Greenville, SC 5:50am, Atlanta 9:00am, B'Ham 2:00pm. Unfortunately to get to Chattanooga on the Southern you would have to wait in Atlanta for the Ponce de Leon at 6Pm, or a quick connection to NC&StL 9:30am Dixie Flyer.
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