i would like to know who in the hell can afford to pay 700 u.s. dollars for a roomette from seattle to chicago??? WHO PAYS THIS KIND OF MONEY FOR A HOTEL ROOM WITH PLASTIC PLATES, AND SHOTTY SERVICE AT BEST???
I cant simply belive the prices they charge, let alone for a bedroom.....
amtrak cant be that broke....
Posted by MontanaJim (Member # 2323) on :
same kind of people who eat at 50-100 dollar a plate restaurants, drive brand new cadillacs and lexuses, etc etc. A lot of rich people. I feel the same way--im lucky to even be able to travel coach. Though i did splurge for a roommette on a recent trip from Chicago to DC. Definitely better than coach, but not something I can afford to do often(I will try to write a brief trip report on that this weekend, btw).
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Ms. Birdchops, if the demand is not there, then the price could well come down; I offer no assurance that there will be a rate acceptable to you, but if there is any flexibility to your travel plans, keep checking.
Montana Jim; Lexus(s); also Lexus(pl)
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
'Chops, I checked the SEA-CHI roomette bucket for a departure date of December 9 and came up with a $216 charge plus $150 fare. Everything, it seems, depends on how far ahead you book. But that's not the whole answer -- I checked an early November departure and discovered the charge was $648 (and all the bedrooms were sold out).
It's supply and demand -- as long as people are willing to pay, Amtrak will charge what it can get.
And as Tom and Ray said back in 1992, the plural of Lexus is unknown, because nobody can afford more than one.
(GBN: I think we've been down this road before. I have two Hondas, the new prices of which added up to less than one Lexus.)
Posted by RR4me (Member # 6052) on :
I own a Hyundai. But I manage the roomettes "price" with Amtrak Guest Reward points on my credit card. While building my home, I used it rather than pay directly with a check, so ammassing points, then paid the bill as it came in. There are ways to get 'r done without paying the fare listed.
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
RR4me--
We did the same with the Southwest card while doing a remodel this summer. We got three RT tix out of that. And more drink vouchers than I can handle!
Ms. Birdchops--
You know that the same sort of pricing occurs with the airlines. It truly is a question of supply and demand and much of this yield management is only possible because of computers. If you were to ask each of your pax on a single flight how much they paid I'd bet you'd get at least ten or fifteen different answers!
All--
It's also true in the cruise industry. We have two B2B (Back to Back in "cruise talk") cruises booked in April. Last week there was a total of $430.00 in reductions for each of us. The cruise line, of course, doesn't tell you about this. You have to follow the price (or have a good travel agent who will do it for you) and then call and request the lower rate. We expect to see at least one more reduction before we sail.
Frank in wet SBA
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by RR4me: I own a Hyundai. But I manage the roomettes "price" with Amtrak Guest Reward points on my credit card. While building my home, I used it rather than pay directly with a check, so ammassing points, then paid the bill as it came in. There are ways to get 'r done without paying the fare listed.
My AGR credit card is my 'gas card'. I commute 43 miles each way five days a week......my commuter gas puts me in Amtrak sleepers at least a couple of times a year!
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
I ran a date at random, Feb 23rd, and came up with rail fare of $150 per person plus $311 per Roomette. One person total is $461, and for two people it is $611(305.50 per person).
Air fares for the same departure date run $226-$247 per person.
Different times will give you different fares.
Posted by CG96 (Member # 1408) on :
Mr. Toy: I would also like to point out that the sleeper is a first class rate.
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
quote:Originally posted by CG96: I would also like to point out that the sleeper is a first class rate.
Amtrak does not offer first class service any more (except on Acela). They dropped the "first class" name and service at least a year ago. Now it is just a sleeping accommodation. Along with dropping the term "first class", they also dropped free sodas, night time sweet, etc....
Posted by royaltrain (Member # 622) on :
By tradition the sleeping car was always a first-class accommodation although a railway may wish to give it a different name or status. There were some exceptions, such as the Slumbercoaches operated by the New York Central (and other railways), in which you paid a basic rail fare with a small surcharge to upgrade to a type of sleeper that wasn't Pullman service, but at least you had a bed to sleep in.
From time to time Amtrak has called their sleepers first-class then dropped the term, brought it back, dropped it again etc. But if one pays a very large sum of money for a bedroom which can easily be more than a thousand dollars above the rail fare, then the passenger has every right to expect first-class service. Unfortunately, although you pay for first-class, there is no way you are going to have a first-class experience on Amtrak.
It is interesting to note that on Via's Canadian, its expensive sleeping car accommodation is not called first-class, but Silver and Blue; and yet Via strives to provide a real first-class service. As well, some airlines may want to provide a first-class type service but, for whatever reason, describe their best class of service as "business class" (possibly because some corporations object to flying their executives first-class but don’t object to a “business class” ticket—a rose by any other name). It all depends on the carrier, some airlines provide an excellent first-class service in business and other airlines provide an inferior service but use the first-class label. So the labels really mean nothing, it is the reputation for service (or lack thereof) that counts.
Posted by birdchops (Member # 6669) on :
I must concur and that is my original point. One can pay an elaborate rate on Amtrak, and have an absolutely Greyhound experience, even in a Sleeper, and I just was trying to assimulate where these people come from?
How's VIA's service? I think I might try them next.
Posted by train lady (Member # 3920) on :
I am curious. What do you people consider first class service? I am content with a large room, private bathroom facilities,and tlc from the attendents.Maybe it is a question of expectations.
Posted by birdchops (Member # 6669) on :
has anyone done the "canadian" from Vancouver to Toronto or reverse? I would like to know your impressions and comparison/contrast to a similiar Amtrak LD train.
I have taken 3 LD trains serveral times, in winter and summer, and there always seems to be issues between the personel on board, either the dining room has some really rough tumblers, or I always end up with an attendant who leaves alot to be desired, and mind you this comes from someone who works purser position in First Class on board aa "upgrade" class major U.S. flag carrier!! My expectations are low, albeit for the price im paying they shouldnt be!
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Ms. Birdchops, while I cannot help you with regards to VIA Rail Canada as I have not set foot aboard such since 1979, until the many here who can, allow my comment that they reportedly have an on-board service product far superior to that of Amtrak to be noted.
With the flop of Grand Luxe, the 'luxotrain' model is dead in North America and quite simply is not about to return; VIA Canadian is likely as close as one will find to a "luxotrain'.
However, so long as Amtrak continues to operate LD trains (and I don't think they are going away anytime soon - "No Yuma, no Moolah"), the best way to assure a luxotrain experience is round up a group of your friends with deep pockets and start exploring around this site.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
Chopster, I have taken the Canadian twice, and its first class product is top drawer . . . and costly. Much more so than Amtrak' s sleeper service. you gets what you pays for.
Posted by birdchops (Member # 6669) on :
Which direction is best?
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
Those who know say west to east will result in the most daylight for the best scenery in the Rockies.
Posted by birdchops (Member # 6669) on :
ill take that into advisement. I wo uld love to be in a position to hire a private rail car for my own personal use.
perhaps one day after i have started life anew, shall i be able to share my interest. i wonder if anyone knows of another, or perhaps an owner who hires for service onboard a private rail car? that must be quite an interesting life of toil.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Possibly I spoke too fast when I said there are no more luxotrains, but even if short on specific itineraries and dates of departures, Royal Canadian Pacific is out there and no doubt at a rate that will have Montana Jim and Patrick first in line to sign up.
However, it is my understanding that RCP is simply parked on sidings overnight thereby missing out on the experience of actually riding the rails in a Sleeper (they may even be tied up during meal hours as well, but I should defer to others on that point).
There is also Rocky Mountain Railtours but this is simply a daylight train ride with transfers to hotels for the overnights. Again, deep pockets necessary - even if again being able to pay up using "seventy five cent pieces" may help a bit.
Ms. Birdchops, if you really want to experience what I believe is Amtrak's 'best Long Distance foot forward", why not hop in the buggy and start driving towards Lorton and the Auto Train? Although it has now been two years since I have used such (last year, I "just didn't go down"; this year it looks like I will be doing my part to pay your salary), neither any of my autos or myself have had a bad experience in seventeen journeys to date. Baring some extreme weather conditions, you can comfortably make Lorton from either New Stanton (Jct I-70 & I-76), or Pgh in time for AT's 3PM closing (I mention Pgh in case you desire more upscale overnight accommodations than can be found at New Stanton, which is 617mi from StL). I think the rates AT charges for auto and rail transport as well as accommodations, are not out of line, even if our "most economical gentlemen' around here just might.
Finally, I guess it should be noted that Ms. Birdchops has a plausible alternative for Auto Train travel that the rest of us do not. That would be to use her "non-rev' travel privileges to KDCA or KIAD and rent an auto there to be loaded aboard AT. This was once done by DPM circa 1972 and he chronicled in TRAINS how 'flabbergasted' the auto rental clerk was at KMCO when he turned in an auto rented in Wash - with only 50 some miles driven!!!! He reported how he had to do "heap big' explaining to a clerk that "hadn't the vaguest what any kind of train was - let alone Auto Train, as back then most auto rental contracts had a mileage component in addition to time (be assured not I, but many a college student "back in my day' was quite adept at disconnecting the odometer cable).
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
If I interpreted it correctly, it looked like the exchange rate has improved significantly for US citizens traveling in Canada.
Has this had an impact on fares on the Canadian, or, since it is largely a US market for the train, have fare increases kept up with the falling Canadian dollar?
Posted by David (Member # 3) on :
quote:Originally posted by smitty195:
quote:Originally posted by CG96: I would also like to point out that the sleeper is a first class rate.
Amtrak does not offer first class service any more (except on Acela). They dropped the "first class" name and service at least a year ago. Now it is just a sleeping accommodation. Along with dropping the term "first class", they also dropped free sodas, night time sweet, etc....
I note that the references to first class are with a lower case "f" and "c." The Oxford Dictionary has several definitions of first class. Those which refer to transportation include: "best accommodation in train, ship, etc." and "belonging to or travelling by the first class."
Sleeping car passengers on VIA's Canadian consider themselves to be travelling first class, even though the term is not used. Similarly, some ships have a section with a lounge or two and a separate dining room. At one time this was called First Class, but recently it is referred to by a variety of names, such as Concierge level. Not long before Cunard's lovely Queen Elizabeth 2 was retired I made an Atlantic crossing in what was once called First Class. For the last several years, Cunard ships have classified passengers by the dining room to which they are assigned. First Class on a ship meant, in addition to a better cabin, one-sitting dining. So passengers dining in Caronia, Princess Grill and Queen's Grill restaurants are considered to be travelling first class. There were three levels of First Class on Cunard.
So I submit that whatever it may be called, a standard above the basic is considered first class by most people.
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
I just went and grabbed a quote for a Bedroom (nee Deluxe Bedroom, nee Pullman Compartment), a 42 sq foot space with toilet and shower, upper and lower berths by night, sofa and easy chair by day.
The acommodation fee was greater than $325 per night
I expect good service for $325 a night. My berths should be made down and put away for me. There should be fresh linen on the bed each night. I expect a spotlessly clean room when I arrive. I do expect a reasonable suite of amenities, competitive with what other areas of the hospitality industry are offering.
The Porter should obtain my seatings for me in the dining car at dinner.
I expect the toilet to work without fail
Yes, Amtrak sleeper is less expensive than First Class air, but not by much.
My thoughts.
Posted by birdchops (Member # 6669) on :
well I would have to agree. I wonder, in the past (1940's, 1950's, etc) when train travel was the predominant means of transporation, were sleeping compartments as expensive then as they are today by comparison to coach class travel?
I know they had upper and lower births then, which Amtrak doesnt provide. I wonder why this is?
If someone here could produce some rates from historic trains, this site could calculate the present day estimated cost.
Posted by ehbowen (Member # 4317) on :
These rates are from the mid-60s up until the eve of Amtrak. Here's one example: Illinois Central from Chicago to New Orleans in August of 1963. Rail fare (first class): 36.29 pp --> $249.32 in 2008 Pullman charge (compartment; 2 pax): 30.90 --> 212.29 in 2008
Current Amtrak pricing for CONO on August 18, 2009 (date picked at random): $108.00 pp rail fare, $143.00 accommodation charge for a bedroom. And this fare includes all dining car meals, unlike its counterpart from 1963. So, in this one instance, the cost has actually gone down (if you're willing to book seven months in advance). I'm sure that if the bucket changed, though, the comparison would be skewed.
[Note: I had to find a new inflation calculator; the NASA one was only good through 2004.]
Posted by ehbowen (Member # 4317) on :
One more: Chicago-Seattle in February of 1970 in a Roomette (Bedroom prices not given).
Rail Fare: $91.24 --> $494.36 in 2008 Accommodation Charge: $33.80 --> $183.14 in 2008
Current Amtrak Pricing for March 10, 2009:
Rail Fare: $150.00 Accommodation Charge: $216.00
And again this includes all dining car meals. It appears that by and large, Amtrak has been holding the line on pricing. Of course, when you want to travel, that price has always jumped up into a higher bucket....
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
From October 1959 AT&SF Passenger timetable:
Chicago to LA:
First Class Rail: $85.56 + 10% Tax = 94.12 Roomette: $33.80 + = $37.18 Super Chief Extra Fare: $7.50 + = $8.25
TOTAL---------------------- $139.55
Those with an inflation calculator "do the math'.
Ms. Birdchops, regarding your comment on Upper and Lower Berth, most railroads realized these were 'do-dos' when they re-equipped passenger trains after WWII. While some roads ordered cars with Uppers and Lowers (generally known as Sections), they quickly realized such was mistake. Practically all cars so ordered were converted to other all-room configurations.
I rode in Uppers and Lowers as a kid; thank you very much Mom and Dad - after all, you were paying back then.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
A few railroads seemed to have missed the message that sections were no longer desired by the public. My favorite road, the L&N (and partners C&EI, NC&StL), surprisingly ordered 6 section - 6 roomette, 4 double bedroom cars delivered in 1953.
You may not have had much privacy, but sections were so comfortable and the bed seemed extra wide (wonder what the dimension was). My last pre Amtrak trip in one was on GM&O's Midnight Special (what a great name) STL-CHI in the late 60's. More recently I sampled one on the Ocean.
Amtrak's superliner roomettes are little more than an enclosed section as they have no toilet facilities.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Mr. Palmland, I must wonder what would have been the fate of open Sections had Robert R Young not been such an ebullient spokesman:
The roads that ordered Section cars served regions with a disproportionate amount of Government traffic. Apparently for the lesserlings, the Federal government would only authorize Berths - the roads, such as the L&N and partners simply recognized the high amount of Government traffic they handled and responded accordingly with the 6-4-6 "-- Pine" cars.
Finally, allow me to note that I cannot think of a more apt name series for those cars. How often have I noted with regards to Southeastern rail travel scenery "If you've seen one Pine Tree, you've seen 'em all".
Posted by birdchops (Member # 6669) on :
thank you for such interesting input. im thinking about doing the Zephyr in February, and cant decide if I want to grab a friend to go along (using my 50% off companion fare discount) or just go alone....probably would be more fun with someone along to save my seat in the Lounge car whilst having to use the powder room....otherwise alone, whats a girl to do???
-Bird
Posted by Judy McFarland (Member # 4435) on :
It is more fun to share the room with someone (and definitely handy to have a seat-holder for those little "side trips", but be sure you are really good friends as that roomette can get small. I offered to take my daughter along MKE-CHI-SAC-EUG and she said we'd probably kill each other after 3 nights in a roomette. (she's 38, I'm 66)
She's still a better traveler than her father. I couldn't get him on a train, and if I had he probably would have jumped at the first opportunity (claustrophobia to the max)
Posted by train lady (Member # 3920) on :
Judy, if your husband is so claustrophobic can he fly?That is far worse than the train. How aout being in a car?
Posted by gibg (Member # 2565) on :
Mr. Norman: Five years of riding the CRI&P twixt Chicago and Colorado Springs in sections (usually the upper, but those cars had tiny windows in the uppers) comes to mind. (We are talking the 1940s.) On one trip I conned a classmate into trading our berths for a compartment (not a bedroom, mind you, but one of two compartments) which enabled us to have a continuous private party. I remember the upgrade cost us something like $10 each. I still have fond memories of the section uppers, which not only had the windows but a hanging net which "stored" all your valuables.
Posted by train lady (Member # 3920) on :
gibg, your comments made me remember those nets. In the early 90's we were on our way west on the Pioneer. We had a roomete and my husband very kindly took the top bunk as I like to look out the window. We were getting settled when he leaned over the side and said that there was a strange "net thing"hanging at one end of the berth and did I know what it was. I explained about the net holder and when he got it open and hung he was delighted/ All his valuables fit in nicely. After that we never saw another one much to his disappointment.
Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
quote:Originally posted by palmland: If I interpreted it correctly, it looked like the exchange rate has improved significantly for US citizens traveling in Canada.
Has this had an impact on fares on the Canadian, or, since it is largely a US market for the train, have fare increases kept up with the falling Canadian dollar?
*************************************** Palmland...I just recently finished booking a summer trip on the Rocky Mountaineer. We are taking the "Classic Circle" which runs from Vancouver to Kamloops, Jasper, Quesnel, Whistler, then back to Vancouver. I'm sure you would agree the trip will not be inexpensive.
Right now, the US/Canadian dollar exchange rate is very favorable to the US..one dollar Canadian is roughly equal to 79 cents American. I don't think the Rocky Mountaineer has increased their fare because of the exchange rate. Sometime back, the Canadian dollar was worth more than the US dollar..so it would be a good time, now, to book your Canadian train trip.
Richard
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Thanks Yukon - Based on that exchange rate and a 75% discount for a companion on senior fares (over 60) a bedroom on the Canadian in early May costs about $1450 U.S. - for 4 nights and much better meals than amfood. That will be hard to pass up.
Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
Palmland..that really sounds like a good deal. $1450 for 4 nights in a bedroom sounds quite inexpensive. I think I remember paying over $800 for a "bedroom", on VIA, for a return trip from Jasper to Vancouver, about 10 years ago. Is the VIA bedroom like Amtrak's bedroom, or is it more like the "economy bedroom" with lower and upper bunks?
Richard
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
Richard -- VIA bedrooms on the Canadian are NOT like AMTRAK bedrooms -- instead of a day couch in the room to sit on, the bedrooms have 2 collapsible chairs for sitting. At night, the chairs are folded up and stowed beneath the 2 bunks -- yes there are 2 bunks, but they are much narrower than the ones in AMTRAK bedrooms (at least the bottom bunk is -- my wife & I could not both fit into the lower bunk on the Canadian, whereas we can in AMTRAK bedrooms). The mattresses on VIA, however, are thicker than those on AMTRAK, and therefore a bit more comfortable
Posted by SilverStar092 (Member # 2652) on :
The Canadian is great in either direction. The bedrooms are super though my favorite spaces are the drawing room for 3 or the roomette for one person. The beds are far more comfortable than Amtrak's beds of today. Don't worry about the folding chairs in the bedrooms on VIA as they are comfortable plus you'll want to ride the dome car all day anyway. Bedrooms on the Ocean to Halifax are not as comfortable as they are European built Renaissance cars which I dislike. The exchange rate is dropping as on our trip to Atlantic Canada in June '08 the US dollar was at best equal to the Canadian dollar. We are riding the Canadian this summer and it is back to about .81 exchange rate. We booked tickets at the higher price but when they were charged the exchange rate dropped the cost a great deal.