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OK, let's skip the part about "where can I find a cheap hotel in Bowling Green ?' (I'm already booked at a Marriott Courtyard there next Thursday - and I'm sure there are cheaper places in town than that) and instead let me ask what are the rail attractions, contemporary and historical, located there?
I'm off to Atlanta by auto; sorry but a CHI-30-WAS-19-ATL and vv journey is a little "out of the question'.
George Harris Member # 2077
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Find the old L&N station. I believe there are some restored cars there.
For those (not GBN, obviously) who don't know, Bowling Green KY was the location where the Memphis section was added/subtracted to the L&N main line trains that ran Cincinatti-Louisville-Nashville-Birmingham-Montgomery-Mobile-New Orleans. Unfortunately due to the L&N/Seaboard/CSX mindset of pull up lines whereever possible, the Memphis line, which went back to before the Civil War, has been in part abandoned.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Whether I go chasing railroad related attractions will be a factor of when I get away from here next Thursday, and how tired I am after the drive.
"Once upon a time", I thought nothing of driving home to Atlanta in one sitting, but then that was "once upon a time".
I normally use I-57 to I-24 which is how the AAA recommends us old folk go. It is 30 miles longer, but there are far fewer 18 wheelers to deal with than via I-65, no congestion around Indy and L'ville, and of course no perpetual construction on I-80, Borman Expressway, in Northern IN. However, owing to some kind of quilter's convention in Paducah KY - 60 miles away from where I normally break that journey in Marion IL, there was "no room at the Inn' There was, Mr. Andy Smith, rooms available at Harrah's in Metropolis IL, but their $169 rate pushed my obscenity button - so much for the tables cross-subsidizing the rooms.
palmland Member # 4344
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GBN, as you may recall Bowling Green is another sentimental favorite for me. As George mentions, the Memphis Pan split from the mainline Pan American running from Cincinnati to New Orleans.
Since our annual pilgrimage to our grandmother's in Tennessee required our sleeper to be switched to the Memphis Pan there, it was always a major landmark on our trip. In later years (after 1956) the through Pullman was gone and we had to change to the coach.
They have done a magnificent job of restoring the station and recreating a version of the Pan including a mail car, Pine series sleeper (I know that's your favorite), diner, and Office car - and it is not far from the interstate.
Hours are 8-5, so please check it out. One of the park's ranking members is Ken Hines. If he happens to be there he might be able to give you a great tour. The station also includes a digital branch of the library, a museum, and model railroad layout.
George Harris Member # 2077
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Don,t know how it is now, but some 5 years ago I drove Columbus, Ohio to Nashville, and I will have to say that the I-routes in Kentucky were the roughest pavement I have driven over in a long time before or since. Not just one area but most of the length border to border.
notelvis Member # 3071
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That is a nice looking E-8.....and it's time I made a trip back to Bowling Green, KY to visit this museum.
FWIW - I rode through Bowling Green on Amtrak's 'Floridian' in August 1979.....just weeks before that train wore Mr. Norman's 'Adios' drumhead.....figuratively speaking.
Bowling Green is also the home of Western Kentucky University, a school that I nearly attended for my graduate studies. It came down to either Maryland or Western Kentucky and...well....WKU finished a close second.
railrev Member # 2640
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quote:Originally posted by notelvis: It came down to either Maryland or Western Kentucky and...well....WKU finished a close second.
Similar to their experience in the NCAA Basketball Tournament.
And while we're off topic. Bowling Green is also the home of the Corvette Museum, a very interesting place to spend a couple hours.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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quote:Originally posted by palmland: Since our annual pilgrimage to our grandmother's in Tennessee required our sleeper to be switched to the Memphis Pan there, it was always a major landmark on our trip. In later years (after 1956) the through Pullman was gone and we had to change to the coach.
Mr. Palmland, as of Sep 1962, there was a Sleeper Cinci-Memphis, but such was operated on the Humming Bird Cinci-Bowling Green.
The car was a heavyweight configured 6Sec, 4RM, 4BR. Apparently L&N 'carved' 2BR from an 8SEC 6BR configuration and replaced such with 4RM. Coach rail was accepted (+ space; youngsters, during railroad days, there were two classes of RAIL fare - Coach and Pullman, Coach was Coach, but to Pullman, your Pullman Company accommodation charges were added).
Finally, the L&N lightweight 6-4-6 "--Pine" cars, do let me know there is life, at least for arborists, beyond "if you've seen one......"
Mr. Palmland, whether I make it to the Museum or to any attraction in Bowling Green beyond my hotel room, depends upon whether or not this Thursday there is a "late set' (I'd have to be highballing NLT 9A), the current road construction at the three "choke points" noted earlier, and my 'energy level".
The evening could well be obtaining a sandwich and soda pop from a slot machine, retreat to the room for some Times and Journal time, and finish off with a little "must see TV" - not necessarily NBC's version of such.
bill haithcoat Member # 6773
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Palmland, were not you and your grandmother on the Memphis Pan the day the Dixieland was broadsided?
notelvis Member # 3071
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quote:Originally posted by railrev:
quote:Originally posted by notelvis: It came down to either Maryland or Western Kentucky and...well....WKU finished a close second.
Similar to their experience in the NCAA Basketball Tournament.
And while we're off topic. Bowling Green is also the home of the Corvette Museum, a very interesting place to spend a couple hours.
Maryland and Western Kentucky have both contributed to the NCAA tournament highlight reels over the years......though neither offered up much in 2009.
Interestingly, I have attended basketball games on the campuses of both institutions. While I was stationed at Ft. Campbell, KY I longed for the atmosphere of a college campus as opposed to the atmosphere of a military base and found Bowling Green a good place to 'get away' from the Army for an evening.
Yes......Austin Peay State University was much nearer than Bowling Green BUT Austin Peay's campus was often overrun by young GI's hunting for pretty coeds.
But I digress.......I am a bit off-topic and I apologize.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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From Marriott Courtyard Bowling Green KY--
I arrived at the Museum 415P today and went on the guided tour of the railcars.
While none are suited for any kind of operation on a Class I road, the Museum is doing a yeoman job to restore them to museum piece quality.
Admission is $10 and AFAIC "worth it" (I could have said "well" or "not"...but I didn't).
I learned that Bisquick biscuit mix is a railroad invention. I also learned that epicurean and cake mix maker Duncan Hines is from Bowling Green. I added to the docent's (30 year old girl) knowledge when she was describing the Towering Pine (L&N 6-4-6) that Lower Berth passengers had priority to ride forward in a Section during daylight hours. However, beyond that, I'm not about to "nitpick" a presentation by someone who was not even of age to know any passenger train serving Bowling Green.
All told, glad I visited.
notelvis Member # 3071
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Thanks for the report Mr. Norman. I've seen the brochures for this museum, a relatively new one, and thought it to be worth a visit based on the glossy pictures. Your recommendation lends significant weight to that opinion.
Any connection between Duncan Hines and L&N dining cars or was that just a bonus factoid?
Finally, having ridden through Bowling Green on Amtrak's 'Floridian' three times, it's a wakeup call being reminded that there is now a generation of adult Bowling Green citizens too young to recall seeing a passenger train glide into that attractive stone depot.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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From Marriott Courtyard Bowling Green KY--
The L&N acquired aluminum sided Diners as part of their equipment orders; one such car was named Duncan Hines.
However, that car was in a wreck and was scrapped. The Museum's car appears to be ex-SP.
Finally, someone else on the tour yesterday asked the docent where can they ride a train. She said Nashville; give the young "Fox News Blonde" credit. However, when they asked where is there Amtrak near here, she didn't know.
I told them privately either Cincinnati or Memphis; something tells me that killed any ideas of their family ever going anywhere by train.
I think the Carter Cuts occurred before our docent/guide was on this planet.
notelvis Member # 3071
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That's a reasonable answer actually -
While not Amtrak, Nashville does have the weekday Music City Star commuter trains and the Tennessee Central Museum operates weekend excursions with vintage E-8's and aluminum sided passenger cars. Some of their excursions venture as far as 100 miles east to Cookeville on the old Tennessee Central line now operated by shortline Nashville and Eastern.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Another thought has come to mind; I thought the Bowling Green station was on the L&N main line. However on the tour, the docent noted that the freight trains operating past the station were only some twenty cars in length.
Even if I'm inclined to hold I've forgotten more of railroad industry affairs than the Fox Blonde docent ever knew (I'll bet she has never ridden a train - it's just a job - she wasn't even born on A-Day and likely not even when the Carter Cuts occurred), she nevertheless is there.
Messrs Harris, palmland, and Presely, does the main somehow bypass the station?
Finally, here's a photo of "the real deal" taken from Taylor St in Chicago and presumably in consist of Humming Bird-Georgian:
As noted in the Museum's own material, this car was retired after being involved in a wreck. Their car is ex-SP 10202 (PSCM 1949), which appears from web searching to have been in the Kentucky Railroad Museum collection.
George Harris Member # 2077
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The main track still very much runs by the Bowling Green station. It has literally been 40 years since I was there, but if my memory is at all right, the station tracks were between main and building. 3 or 4 tracks, maybe 5? Was double track main between the station and Memphis Junction. I have a feeling that second main is no more, though.
Cookeville TN, where I obtained my BS in Civil Engineering, is 90.3 miles from Nashville via the old Tennessee Central, but only 82 miles via I-40.
palmland Member # 4344
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Glad you enjoyed your BG visit. I believe George has it right, as he usually does.
There were two platforms. The one next to the station had one through track as well as two stub end tracks on both north and south end of the station. These held the extra mail, baggage, and engines (usually an FP-7) for the Memphis trains.
The outside platform had a through track on both sides. Beyond that was the mainline.
The docent's reference to a 20 car train must refer to the train RJ Corman operates on trackage rights for aluminum ingots from their line in Kentucky, then CSX via Louisville. At Memphis Jct it goes to the old Memphis branch that Corman now operates and to an aluminum plant in Russellville, KY.
It was double track to Memphis Jct. Until recently (maybe 20 years ago - your perspective on time changes with age), the old concrete coal tower spanned the mainline tracks just before the junction. When we saw its shadow approaching while standing at the rear window of the sleeper (on the end of the train), we knew it was time to get on the Memphis branch and our destination for the summer was near.
But then, that's too much information for an Amtrak forum.
George Harris Member # 2077
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I have a 1997 CSX ETT. Louisville to Nashville is still (or was then) called the Main Line Subdivision. But, Bowling Green is not even listed. Ther is a siding called Morgantown at milepost 115.7 that is 11,355 feet long which appears to be the remnant of the Bowling Green to Memphis Junction second main. All other sidings are in the 6,000 to 7,000 foot range. Memphis Junction is still in the ETT, but the line branching off is labeled as the RJ Corman RR.
palmland Member # 4344
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The 1951 L&N ETT shows double track Bowling Green (m.p. 113.25) to Memphis Jct (m.p. 118.01). I suspect you are correct, George, about the remnant of the double track at m.p. 115.7. That is also the location of the 'new' CSX yard that exists for local industry and the Corvette plant as well as RJC interchange. It is very near Memphis Jct, while the old yard and roundhouse was downtown and within eyeball distance of the station.
notelvis Member # 3071
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Memphis Junction was, what, maybe 4 or 5 miles southwest of the Bowling Green passenger station?
Ah....yes.....Palmland's post confirms this.
The passenger station is on the CSX main. Nashville bound (south) traffic passes the station, then downtown Bowling Green, then the campus of Western Kentucky University. Memphis Junction, it seems, was another couple or three miles beyond that.
Disclaimer - In two months it will have been 20 years since I frequented Bowling Green. I may have passed through there maybe three times (but certainly not more) since June 1989...
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