posted
I read and enjoyed this article a couple of days ago. As a foreigner who occasionally uses Amtrak I am often depressed by the very negative attitudes towards it which I encounter in the US. It was good to read a positive article by someone in public life who was not afraid of being pilloried for his views. Nor is it all rose-coloured speactacle stuff, he mentions cramped space in Roomettes and the possibility of delays, although there does seem to have been quite an improvement in the latter of late, presumably because of less freight congestion. As said previously you can only judge by what you encounter and our Amtrak experiences have been 95% positive. In the UK our much vaunted East Coast mainline, London to Edinburgh and beyond, which changed ownership a couple of years ago is now about to be returned to government control because the new franchise holder, National Express, cannot fulfil its financial promises to the government.
train lady Member # 3920
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thanks for sending that. It was interesting to get a "different " point of view. I notice it says there is a second part. Will you let us know when it comes out?
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Interesting and well written article you located, Mr. Toy.
While I can't be certain, I somehow think that the writer had resources to book a Bedroom. I'm led to wonder if he were properly informed that the Roomette is really not a suitable two mature adult accommodation for any journey - let alone for one 52 hours in length. I've long held that there should be more printed disclaimers that simply because a Roomette has two bunks, does not unconditionally make it a two-person accommodation.
Finally, interesting to learn there is another Yuma along an Amtrak route. Could "No Yuma, no moolah" come to mean that the Zephyr must make a stop there?
smitty195 Member # 5102
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The good: I'm glad he had a nice trip, and enjoyed the scenery. The Zephyr has some of the best views in the Amtrak system. I'm also glad to hear that he had a good on-board crew.
The bad: Unfortunately, he does not understand the mismanagement that is rampant within Amtrak. They "ran out of food" in the diner, and he explains it away by saying this:
"Amtrak tries to estimate how much food x-number of people will consume on a 52-hour trip. They don't want to pull into the end of the line with a lot of food left.
For lunch, we had our choice between a hot dog and a hamburger - and if we didn't make up our minds quickly, the guy at the table behind us was going to get the last hot dog."
As a novice train traveler who does not understand the woes of Amtrak, someone on-board probably told him that this is why they were running out of food. Amtrak trains don't just magically run out of menu items and then someone says, "Oh hey, look--the fridge is empty". One of two scenarios took place in order for that to happen.
Scenario 1: Since it was the end of the trip, the chef was lazy and did not want to clean everything up by making all menu items available. He wanted a quick and easy kitchen clean-up so that he could stop working and kick back until the train reached the end of the line. This is when they magically and suddenly run out of items on the menu. They may have been fully stocked downstairs, but it's easier to just say "Sorry, this is all we have left". This happens A LOT on Amtrak, and nobody is ever held accountable for this.
Scenario 2: They actually did run out of most items on the menu. Why? Well, after 38 years of running passenger trains, they still can't figure out how much food to stock on-board the train. They have passenger manifests, and they know how many people will be riding the train along any particular segment. If they are running low on certain food items, all they do is call ahead to the next location where there is a commissary truck to meet the train and then re-stock with whatever items are needed. But this requires work and planning.....and why do this when you can just tell people, "Sorry, we're out of these 5 items". It makes it so much easier for the crew---and to heck with the passengers.
The dirty little secret is that these types of things happen every day on Amtrak, and they are allowed to get away with it--and that is wrong.
smitty195 Member # 5102
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I should also add one more thing.....When the author of the article said that Amtrak does not want to pull into the end of the line with a lot of food leftover, this is absolutely not true. It is not the author's fault---he is just saying what someone probably told him. The way Amtrak food management works is that everything is dated and everything is inventoried. Both the lounge car attendant and the chef are responsible for accounting for every single item that the train is stocked with. When you have food leftover at the end of a trip (which you almost always do), it does not get thrown away. As long as it is still within the date of being fresh, it is simply trucked back to the commissary and sent out on another train.
For those who have stood around and watched long-distance Amtrak trains arrive into Los Angeles, you know that the trains are now required to sit there for a very long time while the food service employees sit and wait for the commissary to show up. They used to pull the train over into their yard and would do inventory there, but because of employee theft issues, they now have to do it right there at the platform.
So it doesn't matter how much food is leftover---it has to be inventoried by the LSA and the commissary anyway---right there at the station. This is why the idea behind not wanting to have leftover food at the end of a trip is a ludicrous comment for Amtrak to tell the reporter. And this is why Amtrak must be held accountable.
posted
In Segment 2, he mentions that the Empire Builder is Amtrak's most popular train. Can anyone confirm that? I was thinking it was the Starlight, but the Empire Builder might beat them out.
Henry Kisor Member # 4776
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Leave it to Smitty to find the sole rain cloud in a vast blue sky and beat it to death.
smitty195 Member # 5102
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I kinda thought a comment like that might pop up. So much for embracing diversity and being accepting of people's differences, eh, Henry?
So tell me, oh man of mighty words and wisdom, what did I say that is factually incorrect? Why do AmFans get so uptight when their little train fantasies are interrupted by realities?
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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quote:Originally posted by smitty195: In Segment 2, he mentions that the Empire Builder is Amtrak's most popular train. Can anyone confirm that? I was thinking it was the Starlight, but the Empire Builder might beat them out.
posted
Thanks, GBN. Some of those stats are very surprising to me. The Silver Service trains are up in the 300K range close to the Starlight. And the Empire Builder is significantly more popular than the Starlight---not even close. The Sunset's numbers are a bit pathetic, however.
Henry Kisor Member # 4776
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For those who don't want to page through the numbers:
Empire Builder 554,268 passengers FY 2008
Coast Starlight 353,657 passengers FY 2008
Interestingly, the train that showed the greatest percentage improvement in the number of passengers it carried during the fiscal year was the Texas Eagle at 15.2%. (I've long wanted to take that train although others have suggested the scenery is perhaps more interesting to a jackrabbit.)
The Sunset Limited did have the lowest number of passengers for the year, at 71,718, but it runs just three times a week. It did have the second highest percentage improvement at 13.2%.
train lady Member # 3920
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I have to take excepton to the comments about N. D. We drove through the whole state on one Canada- US trip. Theodore Roosevelt National Park is great and the Manddan Indian village most interesting.The capitol building is quite nice. As to Willston we had a great lunch there.Of course one can't see this from the train but North Dakot is to me no more boring than eastern Montana.
Railroad Bob Member # 3508
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quote:Originally posted by smitty195:Scenario 2: They actually did run out of most items on the menu. Why? Well, after 38 years of running passenger trains, they still can't figure out how much food to stock on-board the train. They have passenger manifests, and they know how many people will be riding the train along any particular segment. If they are running low on certain food items, all they do is call ahead to the next location where there is a commissary truck to meet the train and then re-stock with whatever items are needed. [/QB]
Smitty is bringing up some valid points, esp. about Amtrak knowing in advance what the passenger load will be, since these are reserved trains. A good Dining Car LSA (lead service attendant) will look at all the numbers, and do his/her best to provision the train. Sometimes there is a "run" on an individual item (because it's delicious or some other reason) and that entree will run out, but that happens in restaurants too. Regarding "commissary trucks at the next location" there aren't too many of these in mid-country; these are in the "crew base" cities like LA and Chicago mainly. There are a few "satellite" commissaries. Some items can be requisitioned down-line, food and non-food, but if there is a serious run-out of dining car fare in a place like Trinidad, CO the crew might wind up with Pizza Hut and KFC being onloaded (from these kinds of commercial places along the line.) They'll do their best to get the passengers fed, in other words. In passenger railroad operations, not every scenario can be foreseen, but it's funny that I never remember the dining cars "running out" in the days when the Santa Fe was running the show! They may have, but I was a kid at the time and would have been having too much fun to notice!
smitty195 Member # 5102
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I don't remember where the re-stocking points are along the route of the Empire Builder, but I'm thinking that Havre, Montana and maybe Minot, North Dakota?? For the Coast Starlight, they re-stock at Oakland every single day. I always seem them loading ice, bags of chips, boxes of produce, soda, etc....On the Zephyr, I think Denver is a location where a commissary truck meets the train as well. The LSA will usually call ahead (via cell phone) to place the order.
There was a discussion recently on another forum that discussed the Southwest Chief and the Boy Scouts that travel to the Philmont Boy Scout Ranch every summer. Teenage boys eat lots of food----by the box load. Unfortunately, Amtrak once again drops the ball every single time and they do not add a single item of extra food to their lounge cars. As a result, regular passengers are deeply disappointed a few hours into the trip when they go down to the lounge car for a snack and everything---literally----is gone. The re-stocking for that train occurs, I think, at ABQ---but this is off the top of my head so I'm not positive about that.
Ocala Mike Member # 4657
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I find myself (horrors!) somewhat in agreement with smitty on this one. The main reason that Amtrak dining car and sleeping car service is the way it is today is due to lack of pride and incentive on the part of the individual workers. Wish we could go back to the day of "10,000 Black Men Named George", but it isn't going to happen.
The Florida Market Manager for Amtrak once told me at a Florida Rail Passenger's meeting that the best and brightest workers at Amtrak are pulled out of the system and wind up working the Autotrain.
smitty195 Member # 5102
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Ocala Mike, I just about fell off my chair!
Henry Kisor Member # 4776
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Train Lady, I guess when you see a state only by the sole train that runs through it you get a limited view. I once disparaged Nebraska for being excruciatingly boring, and was excoriated roundly for it by those who knew the state well. Later one of them took me around and I did see that many parts of the state are a lot prettier than "miles and miles of grain elevators." These days the only state safe to dump upon is Illinois, my own. To paraphrase GBN, once you've seen one cornstalk, you've seen 'em all. (Also politicians.)
All the same, what we see of North Dakota and Nebraska from the train is, let's say, not an accurate picture of their beauties.
rresor Member # 128
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I've had several experiences with Amtrak running out of food. On one eastbound trip on the Lake Shore, the lounge was out of everything but some warm beer before we got east of Utica, the diner ran out of water at Cleveland and there was no place to water the car until Albany. So we loaded McDonald's breakfast sandwiches at Buffalo and Arby's Roast Beef at Albany for the sleeper passengers (and did I mention we were three hours late as well?)
One of the worst things about Amtrak's attempt to maintain a skeleton nationwide service is that resources are spread very thin. There are few points en route even to water trains, much less service toilets or air conditioning or restock diners and lounges. The result is the poor service most of us have experienced at one time or another.
Henry Kisor Member # 4776
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There is a third scenario to running out of food: bad-order equipment in the dining cars. Often one or more refrigerators will be on the blink when the crew starts loading provender and there will be little room to store items that must be refrigerated. The chef and LSA can do nothing except grit their teeth and bear it. There isn't time to repair the problem and there is no reserve dining car in the yards to replace the ailing one.
I've been in dining car and lounge car galleys when the crew loaded them in the Chicago yards, and, believe me, there is no extra space to store food. The place looks like a submarine just setting out on a six-month cruise without resurfacing.
It doesn't surprise me that Boy Scouts on the way to Philmont would chow through the wanagan in a short time.
In such conditions the crew knows it's going to be yelled at by the passengers. Unsurprising that it might be surly, even one composed of "10,000 black men named George." (Could we find even one black man who would want to go back to those days of all but indentured servitude to George Pullman?)
Let's hope part of Amtrak's stimulus money goes to refurbishing the dining cars from top to bottom.
palmland Member # 4344
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While I'm sure working as a porter was very tough with incredibly long hours, I talked with several who loved their profession and the opportunity it gave them that was unavailable to the vast majority of the black men in those days. They were held in very high regard by their community and while the pay was miserable, a full pullman of business travlers would yield a significant tip income.
While I tend to romanticize the 'good old days', I suspect considering a porter as 'all but indentured servitude' goes to the other extreme.
quote:Originally posted by Henry Kisor: These days the only state safe to dump upon is Illinois, my own. To paraphrase GBN, once you've seen one cornstalk, you've seen 'em all. (Also politicians.)
Say it ain't so, Mr. Kisor! Lots of us love Illinois corn and stalks; may I mention the "Prairie Triumvirate...?" "Let's bury this old Illinois farmer with respect. He slept the Illinois nights of his life after days of work in Illinois cornfields. Now he goes on a long sleep. The wind he listened to in the cornsilk and the tassels, the wind that combed his red beard zero mornings when the snow lay white on the yellow ears in the bushel basket at the corncrib, the same wind will now blow over the place here where his hands must dream of Illinois corn." C. Sandberg
I could also give you some Edgar Lee Masters or Vachel Lindsay, but enough for now...I will content myself with train-watching in the Fall, in the Spoon River country, near Dahinda, Illinois-- and be content.
notelvis Member # 3071
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Now THIS is why I read Trainweb. How often does one see Carl Sandberg cited?
If we ever get Amtrak back to Western North Carolina, you all will need to come visit Sandberg's final home just outside Flat Rock, NC. The place is open to the public and it's pretty much left the way it was the day Sandberg died.......magazines and books everywhere.
train lady Member # 3920
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In 2000 we toook a driving trip that I had wanted for years. We followed as closely as possible the old Oregon trail to he coast. Since I do the trip planning I didn't leave much time for Nebraska. After all there is not much there right? Wrong. The view from the top of Scott's Bluff is magnificant, the pony express office and sod museum in Gothenburg are very interesting. Randoloh has a special clover that the bees love and it is the honey capital. In the winter they send the bees down to Mexico and bring them back in the spring.. Sue Bee honey comes from there. The are rail yards in E. Platte and another town as well ( forget the name)are fun to see for rail fans and that is just the beginning. There are wonderful things to see in every state and yes, Henry even Illinois.
notelvis Member # 3071
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During the summers I worked with competitive drum and bugle corps touring on buses (I still hold a valid CDL with passenger endorsement), I made a number of drives across (and stops within) Nebraska.
It's been my experience that the citizens of Gothenburg, Scotts Bluff, and Imperial, NE were all especially welcoming of the young people we brought through their communities.
Henry Kisor Member # 4776
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I surrender! I cannot compete with Carl Sandburg! Even if he and I worked for the same newspaper -- a generation or two apart.
(These days, if you mention Sandburg, most people think you're talking about the Hall of Fame second baseman.)
Of course I was being tongue-in-cheeky about Illinois. As states go, it is not so bad, provided you ignore the Cossacks -- er, politicians.
Now to go reread the "Spoon River Anthology."
PullmanCo Member # 1138
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Institutional Food Service these days is not rocket science. Sysco, US Foodservice, and a host of regional brands have offices in a variety of cities across the US. Certainly, they have operations (for 5/6) in Chicago, Denver, Salt Lake City, and Reno.
If Amtrak does not have its food service vendor contract written so it can call ahead on 6 hours notice and get foods to these major stations, SHAME ON THEM.
There is no excuse for running out of commissary goods. Period.
HopefulRailUser Member # 4513
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On our Sunset Limited trip we ran out of coffee in Arizona. We were coming from California so that was pretty early in the trip! They called ahead and the new crew coming on stopped at Walmart and brought more coffee with them.
We had left LA late because they had to stock the diner. Oops, not with coffee.
Running out of food is my pet peeve and I'm with Smitty on this one. Ridiculous!
royaltrain Member # 622
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I too have seen Amtrak run out of food and other supplies even on the first day of the trip. It's interesting that Via somehow manages to keep the Canadian stocked for its four night journey Toronto to Vancouver. The many times I have ridden this train, not once did they ever run out of food. So it is certainly possible to keep the passengers happy by simply feeding them. As someone else commented, this is not rocket science.
Railroad Bob Member # 3508
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quote:Originally posted by notelvis: Now THIS is why I read Trainweb. How often does one see Carl Sandberg cited?
If we ever get Amtrak back to Western North Carolina, you all will need to come visit Sandberg's final home just outside Flat Rock, NC. The place is open to the public and it's pretty much left the way it was the day Sandberg died.......magazines and books everywhere.
Right David- Galesburg, IL did the same thing with his boyhood home; left it the same with the tables set, books opened ready to read, etc. Amazingly small little place, probably about 700 sq. ft. Sandberg's father was a boilerman down at the CB&Q Yards, where he would trudge down to on foot on frosty IL dawns. Didn't know about his Flat Rock, NC connection...Yes, Mr. Kisor-- Spoon River Anthology, still a good read to this day. As to the Sunset running out of coffee that early in Hopeful's trip- that's inexcusable! Another way Amtrak moves supplies is from train-to-train when opposing meets happen. I've seen it done once west of Alpine, TX with #2/#1...near Paisano Pass. 3 big boxes were transferred while both trains were still moving. (albeit slowly) The crew probably didn't want the UP dispatchers to see the movements stop on the control screens...
George Harris Member # 2077
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quote:Originally posted by smitty195: In Segment 2, he mentions that the Empire Builder is Amtrak's most popular train. Can anyone confirm that? I was thinking it was the Starlight, but the Empire Builder might beat them out.
Looking at Mr. Norman's reference:
Money: 1. Empire Builder, $59.4 million 2. Autotrain, $58.1 mil 3. Southwest Chief, $41.1 mil 4. Calif Zeypher, 39.0 mil 5. Silver Meteor, 30.6 6. Coast Starlight, 28.1 mil, just ahead of the 7. Crescent, 27.1 mil. When you look at it by route, the Northeast to Florida wins hands down: Silver Meteor + Silver Star + Palmetto, $71.2 million
Ridership: 1. Empire Builder, 534 thousand 2. Silver Star, 367 thou 3. Coast Starlight, 354 thou 4. Calif. Zephyr, 353 thou 5. Lakeshore Ltd., 345 thou 6. Southwest Chief, 331 thou Again, when you look at it by route, the Northeast to Florida wins hands down: Silver Meteor + Silver Star + Palmetto, 860 thousand
Ocala Mike Member # 4657
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George, when you look at it by route, don't forget to add in the Autotrain figures for NE to Florida. True, Lorton, VA is not exactly NE, but consider the states where most of the business originates.
RR4me Member # 6052
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It was a nice article, written by a traveler who enjoyed the "newness" of his discovery. After several more trips, if taken, I think he will lean a bit more towards Smitty's view than he does now. All in all, I was pleased he didn't try to write like an expert on train travel after one trip.
I doubt one could find a black man who would be willing to go back to those "good old days", but in perspective, I bet you could find a black man from the early 1800s who would love to have gone forward to the life of a porter!
posted ![[Smile]](smile.gif)