WASHINGTON (AP) – The Senate voted Wednesday to permit passengers on the Amtrak passenger railroad to transport handguns in their checked baggage.
The proposal, approved by a 68-30 vote, seeks to give Amtrak riders rights comparable to those enjoyed by airline passengers, who are permitted to transport firearms provided that they declare they are doing so and that the arms are unloaded and in a securely locked container.
"Americans should not have their Second Amendment rights restricted for any reason, particularly if they choose to travel on America's federally subsidized rail line," said Sen. Roger Wicker, R-Miss., who made the proposal.
Wicker's amendment would deny the railroad its $1.6 billion taxpayer subsidy unless it changes the gun policy.
Current Amtrak policy, put in place after the bombings of passenger trains in Madrid five years ago, prohibits weapons, including firearms, from being carried on its trains.
Prior to the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, Amtrak permitted firearms to be carried on its trains so long as they were separately secured in locked baggage or carrying cases. But it added restrictions on carrying weapons after 9/11 and imposed a total ban on all weapons after the Madrid bombings.
Wednesday's vote was the latest in a string of victories for gun rights activists in the Senate despite Democrats' sizable majority. Some 27 Democrats, including Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada, voted for the amendment, many from Western or Southern states. Independent Bernie Sanders of Vermont, who aligns with Democrats and is one of the chamber's most liberal members, also voted on the pro-gun rights side.
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
I didn't even know that you couldn't transport guns in your checked baggage on Amtrak. I see nothing wrong with it---as long as the bag is checked, then it's no different than any airline. There are several "open carry" states in the USA that people travel to, and some folks will pack their weapon with them if they're heading to an open carry state.
Posted by Ocala Mike (Member # 4657) on :
There's nothing wrong with it in principle, but Amtrak may not be able to comply with this in practice. Stay tuned!
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
I'm bothered that with all the things the senate could be doing concerning Amtrak that this is the type of bill that would be brought to the floor.
Weapons were allowed as checked baggage prior to 9/11. Seems like Amtrak could return to the policy in effect prior to that time. What compliance would Amtrak need to do other than carry the customers own locked suitcase or other suitable container?
I think I'd also rather my fellow passengers check their weapons rather than carry them concealed on-board the train.
Posted by dns8560 (Member # 15184) on :
Most stations don't provide checked baggage service.
And I've never had to go through any sort of screening process before boarding a train, ever. Who knows how many gun and knife wielding passengers ride trains every day.
Posted by amtrak92 (Member # 14343) on :
Never had a screening. That is what is great about amtrak we can get around without going thru mindless security. When I fly the TSA checks my bags.
Posted by dns8560 (Member # 15184) on :
I'm flying from Ithaca to Orlando via Philadelphia and Charlotte next Thursday. I haven't flown since before 9/11. I guess I'm going to find out what screening is all about these days!
Posted by Mike Smith (Member # 447) on :
I've carried in my luggage several times. That would be the luggage that is kept in my room. No problems and no checks.
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
quote:Originally posted by dns8560: I'm flying from Ithaca to Orlando via Philadelphia and Charlotte next Thursday. I haven't flown since before 9/11. I guess I'm going to find out what screening is all about these days!
Not sure if you know the new rules, but here's a quick rundown of what to expect:
-No carry-on fluids/gels/pastes over 3 ounces (this includes toothpaste, gel deodorant, etc). If you are bringing anything more than 3 ounces, you have to check it in. There are exceptions to this, such as medical liquids which now includes saline solution for contacts over 3 ounces. You have to declare it, and if available, get in the "Family/Medical Liquids" line at TSA
-For the fluids/gels/pastes 3 ounces or under that you ARE bringing as a carry-on, put them all into a zip-lock baggie (one quart size I think is what they say)
-Take your shoes off and put them in the plastic bin
-Take off your jacket, sweater, or coat, and put it in the plastic bin
-Take your laptop computer out of the case and put it into its' own plastic bin by itself. No need to open up the computer---just lay it down inside a bin by itself
-Take everything metal out of your pockets, take off your cell phone, take out your wallet, etc, and put it all into a plastic bin.
I manage to only use 2 plastic bins when I go through TSA screening. One bin is for my laptop, and the other fits my shoes, baseball hat, wallet, liquids, and other misc. items.
When you get to the TSA screening area where the line forms (but BEFORE you actually get to xray machine and metal detector), there will be a TSA person checking your boarding pass. Usually they have one person standing at the entrance to the line, and you just show them your boarding pass and nothing else. Once you get in the line, but before you get to the screening machines, you will encounter ANOTHER TSA employee who will check your boarding pass and match it up with your government issued ID (Driver's license or Passport). That person will shine a little light onto your ID card to verify it is not fake, and they will check the name on the boarding pass and match it with the name on your ID. Once they sign their initials on your boarding pass, you will now get into the line for screening. You can put your ID card away---you do not need to show it to anyone beyond this point. However, keep your boarding pass handy. It's a crapshoot depending on the mood-o-meter at the various airports as to whether or not they want to see your boarding pass again when you walk through the metal detector----so just keep it handy.
When you choose a line to stand in, make sure you're not standing in the line where you have to walk into a big machine that blows air onto you (it is "sniffing" for bomb making materials). I find that those lines go very slowly, and I really don't care for the huge burst of air that goes into my eyes (I wear contacts).
Any questions, just ask....I fly all the time.
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
Smitty--
I have NEVER been asked to take my wallet out of my pocket.
DO, however, be sure to take your ID out of your wallet or any other case.
If you have any sort of metallic implant (such as my artificial hip) plan on a few extra minutes. The longest this has taken was five minutes at a busy time at a busy airport. (8:00AM on a Monday, Terminal One (Southwest), LAX).
I don't think you would find anyone in the airline industry who would consider these precautions "mindless". Remember the often forgotten fact that flight crew (Professional Flight Attendants and Pilots) were the first victims of terrorism on 9/11.
Frank in dark and cooling SBA
Posted by Railroad Bob (Member # 3508) on :
Frank, I've got quite a bit of metal in my left leg, but interestingly enough, it must be an "inert" type of medical-grade material. In all these years since 2002, when the stuff was implanted, I think the only time I've set any security machines off were at a rock 'n roll concert and a local courtroom going in for Jury Duty. All those current airport reg's are necessary, I guess-- and one big reason why I take the train instead of fly, if time permits. I'd hazard a guess most here would opt for the train if they could. After all, don't we like the feel of "steel wheels rumblin' 'neath the floor, through the Mississsippi darkness rollin' down to the Sea?" (with our guns, of course) <smile>
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
Frank---the only reason I mentioned wallet is because there are sometimes items that will set off a detector. In my wallet, if I have a stick of Wrigley gum (wrapped in tin), it will set off the detector. If the person going through does not know what is making them beep, then it creates quite a hassle. You're only allowed to go through twice, and even if you discover what it is, they will not allow you to go through again----you have to go into one of those clear cubicle things and get hand searched and hand wanded. That happened to me once when I accidentally left a very small tube of Blistex in my pocket and I forgot it was there. I went through the first time and beeped, then I figured well, maybe it's my belt or my watch, so I took both of them off and walked through again---and I beeped again. That's when it dawned on me that I had that little tube of Blistex in my pocket. I showed them that I discovered what it was, and they said "Too late!" and that I can only go through twice. I spent 10 minutes in that damn cubicle waiting for someone to come over and hand search/hand wand me.
By the way, I have metal in my body as well. I have all sorts of metal rods and screws and cages in my spine, but I have never beeped at an airport. However, last week when I saw Conan O'Brien at Universal City, I beeped in their detector and they had to hand wand me. Weird.
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
Oh----one more twist to all of this stuff.....last week when I was coming home from my trip down to see Conan, I went through security at Burbank Airport. They have one of those new "see-through" machines (which I have never seen before). I guess it's an x-ray---I'm not really sure. But you stand in an electronic box with your hands over your head, and this big metal thing moves very quickly around your entire body from head to toe. You then exit and stand there for about a minute until the TSA person receives the "all clear" over the radio (they are wearing headsets) from the person viewing the images in some other location. For the first time, I was told that EVERYTHING had to come out of your pockets. No Kleenex, no wallet, no coins, no toothpicks---nothing---your pockets had to be 100% empty. It was a hassle.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
I flew to NYC last week and coming home was an experience. I saw a pilot take his shoes off to go through screening. That is without a doubt, the most absurd thing... well no it wasn't the most absurd thing I've seen TSA bureaucrats do. Why would a pilot have to go through screening? He's the pilot of the plane and is authorized to carry a 45 caliber semi-auto pistol if he goes through the training.
My fellow employee was asked to remove her belt before going through the metal detector. I was not asked to take my belt off, even though it had at least twice the metal that her belt had. I did not beep. I've gone through the detector with my keys in my pocket and no beep.
More absurd sights at the TSA station: An 80-year-old woman being wanded and inspected and an 8-year-old girl being re-inspected just before entering the plane. What a waste of time and resources. And these "people" want to run our health care??? NO thanks!
Posted by Mike Smith (Member # 447) on :
The budget support would be stripped in six months unless Amtrak scraps the gun ban that it wisely adopted five years ago after the terrorist railroad atrocities in Madrid.
And the NYT publishes more proof they are clueless blithering idiots. {"wisely adopted" comment}
Posted by dns8560 (Member # 15184) on :
What about cameras? Can they be brought on board aircraft? I have a Canon DSLR I'd like to bring.
Posted by Mike Smith (Member # 447) on :
Yes, cameras are OK. I've taken numerous pictures as we take off and land, along with pictures of clouds and landmarks through the very small plane window.
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
I've taken video of both takeoff and landing with my camera, and nobody has ever said anything to me. Although technically, it's probably not allowed since all "electronic devices" have to be turned off between push-back from the gate and reaching 10,000 feet. So I dunno....
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
Teh metal detectors have variable settings. I have a plate along part of my left femer and a bolt into the hip. Sometimes the metal detector goes off, sometimes not. On one occasion it was set so sensitive that it picked up the small bit of metal in my passport.
DO NOT put your cell phone in your shoe to go through the X-ray machine. It will look lke the shoe has encolsed electronics on the X-ray, and may create a major panic attack. At least, so I was told by a screener on one occasion.
Posted by RR4me (Member # 6052) on :
I think the key comment in the NYT opinion is: "...stop its demeaning homage to the gun lobby." This really wasn't aimed at Amtrak, it was all about the NRA. I own guns, carry them when I want to, and enjoy shooting sports (target and trap). But some NRA execs are total wackos, and there is no way I'd join.
As to Amtrak's blithering about not being able to get ready in time, that is typical bureaucratice BS. There is no requirement for them to screen, or X-ray etc. Claiming they'd need to is reading more into the legislation than is intended IMHO.
Posted by royaltrain (Member # 622) on :
There is one Amtrak station where there is screening including x-raying of your luggage: Vancouver BC. On two occasions they discovered my contraband gin and seized it.
Posted by Mike Smith (Member # 447) on :
Thanks, George!
My cell phone and my GPS hand-held will be going into my shoes each and every time I go through the TSA screening!!!
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
Royal Train--
Is that check only done on baggage leaving Vancouver? Not that I plan to sneak anything into the country, you understand! Well, maybe a box or two of nice wine for the ship...
Frank in sunny and warm SBA
Posted by Mike Smith (Member # 447) on :
Canadian customs can search everything as you enter Canada, and US customs can search you as you re-enter. If you declare the alcohol, there should not be a problem.
No guns... You will not like how they treat you if they discover a gun in your luggage!
Posted by Ocala Mike (Member # 4657) on :
Canada is like "America Lite". You know that book, "Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus"? It seems to me that the US must be from Mars, while Canada and Europe must be from Venus.
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
Mike--
Oh, yeah, we understand about the guns. And other things.
Flight attendants are cautioned about trying to do trips to Canada after being busted for a DUI. They take that VERY seriously up there and you WILL be refused admittance to the country if it pops up on their database. That can seriously screw up the operation.
On our next cruise (starting in Vancouver with two Canadian ports) we will go through customs when we dock in Seattle. We have been warned to take everything with us that we will need for the day since nobody will be let back on the ship until after everyone has cleared. That can take several hours.
Frank in dark, cool and foggy SBA
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
I went through Canadian Customs a few weeks ago for the first time in my life. I was driving a U-Haul that was loaded with my friend's stuff (I was helping her move to Canada from Arizona). They would not let me through! I had to wait a few hours for her to catch up with me (long story on that!), and then it took us an hour as they interviewed each of us one at a time. We both had the proper documents and we both showed them our police ID cards. That didn't matter----they gave us the 3rd degree before finally allowing us to cross. They were very nice about it, but I was really surprised at how tough it was to get in.
Oh, and I'm not impressed at all with Canada's highway system when it comes to signs, markings, and gas stations. From Alberta all the way to Saskatchewan (Saskatoon) the signs were tiny and are nothing like we have here where you are given plenty of warning as to what's coming up next. Gas stations are EXTREMELY difficult to find---it was very weird as I had never been exposed to anything like it before. You really had to go out of your way to search for fuel. One sign that I saw every now and then that gave me a chuckle was, "Important Intersection Ahead". I never really understood that.
Posted by sojourner (Member # 3134) on :
I'm sorry, but I wouldn't carry a gun in my checked luggage any more than I'd carry valuable jewelry or electronic equipment. Too much risk of getting lost, isn't there? Even worse on planes, of course. . .
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
Ahhhhhh......Canadian Customs. I've lost count of the number of times I've crossed the Canadian border. I've done it on Amtrak, flying, driving, riding, etc.
The customs folks do not have a sense of humor but only once has it been a 'rude' encounter. That was driving a drum corps bus across the border into New York from Quebec once at about 2:00am.
Posted by Mike Smith (Member # 447) on :
Traveling to Vancouver, via Amtrak bus, I made the mistake of answering a question wrongly...
The Canadian customs agent noted (from my driver's license) I was from Texas and did I know the Canadian laws regarding guns. I said no, but I left all 47 of my guns at the house.
Wrong answer.
The bus waited on me and my bag to be thoroughly inspected by the agents (yes, another one came over to help). Posted by royaltrain (Member # 622) on :
quote:Originally posted by sbalax: Royal Train--
Is that check only done on baggage leaving Vancouver? Not that I plan to sneak anything into the country, you understand! Well, maybe a box or two of nice wine for the ship...
Frank in sunny and warm SBA
The x-ray screening occurs only s/b leaving Vancouver BC to Seattle. On the nb train Amtrak and/or U.S. customs have no checking of baggage in Seattle.
As for my gin, it was Amtrak who didn't want me to bring liquor on board the Cascade, U.S. customs didn't seem to care. Amtrak did give my gin back once the train arrived in Seattle. They only found one bottle, the x-ray operator didn't find the other bottles I had. I don't know why Amtrak has this funny "rule" about bringing liquor on board the train. This is unique to Vancouver BC, as nowhere else on the Amtrak system is this done.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike Smith: Traveling to Vancouver, via Amtrak bus, I made the mistake of answering a question wrongly...
The Canadian customs agent noted (from my driver's license) I was from Texas and did I know the Canadian laws regarding guns. I said no, but I left all 47 of my guns at the house.
Wrong answer.
The bus waited on me and my bag to be thoroughly inspected by the agents (yes, another one came over to help).
Good thing you lrft your arsenal at home.....you'd probably still be in a British Columbia Hoosegow if you had had one along.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
Sophisticated and experienced travelers know that when dealing with customs, immigration or Homeland Security gestapo, the best thing to do is *think* (but not say) "Zu befehl!" and comply politely with all requests, directions and orders. One gets through the gate much faster that way.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
So long as it appears this topic has evolved into one regarding travel "formalities', be they TSA, ICE, CBP, whatever..., allow me to note that at KRIC security yesterday afternoon, there was a lady ahead of me who for whatever reason just "couldn't get her stuff together". She was nice, and graceously offered to allow me to pass her. I did, and it was over and done in less than two minutes (I forgot to remove my belt, but that didn't seem to upset them).
Well, guess what she got for her courtesy..."the treatment'. Just think, had I held my place in line, guess who would have gotten it instead?
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
GBN, do the TSA scharfuehrers always give every Xth passenger The Treatment? I was under the impression that they look for unusual behavior (perhaps as that woman showed) or unusual characteristics, such as triggering the metal detector twice in succession.
Those of us with stainless steel joints get The Treatment every time. Fortunately they've got it down to a science and the wanding usually goes quickly. Once in a while there seems to be a Designated Wander who is off having a sandwich at the time you're going through security and then you have to wait ... and wait ... until he or she shows up. Not good if you're rushing to make a plane.
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
There are a number of things that can trigger an extra search. The behavior of the woman ahead of Mr. Norman might have caused extra attention to be paid. I also know that a one-way ticket paid for in cash will trigger an extra search. There are several "codes" that appear on boarding passes to indicate that and other bits of information.
I agree with Henry, TSA has come a long way as far as the wanding goes. My titanium and chrome steel hip seldom causes more than an extra couple of minutes to be added to the time. They have the routine down and so do I.
It seldom sets of detectors at cruise ports although the portable detectors on board often catch it.
Nashville gets my nod for the most efficient screening process -- and for the nice comfy leather chairs behind big windows in the "Waiting Room" as people exit the sterile area.
Frank in sunny and soon to be hot again SBA
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
The only time I 'got the treatment' from TSA was at the El Paso, TX airport BUT I did fit the profile for such.
Just a couple of hours earlier I had been comfortably situated in the luxary of a roomette on the 422 sleeper from Los Angeles to Fort Worth until the Sunset pulled in to El Paso and was promptly annulled due to a freight derailment on the UP somewhere just east of San Antonio.
We were assured that buses were on the way to 'bridge' 1st class passengers to our waiting connections in San Antonio. Coach passengers were invited to use the train as their 'hotel' overnight until more buses would arrive for them the next morning.
So.......it's about 4:30pm on a Saturday afternoon. No buses are in sight at all. Who knows when or if they will show.....and when they do, who wants a 600 mile overnight ride on a bus instead of in a roomette?
One quick phone call later and I was booked for a one way Southwest Airlines flight to Dallas....all I had to do was get a cab to the El Paso airport by 6pm.
So..........rushing in off a cab with only a small carry-on bag for a hastily booked at the last minute one-way flight leaving in just 25 minutes......
I knew that a 'full security' search was coming my way. Wasn't so bad and thankfully, El Paso is not that busy of an airport!
Posted by TBlack (Member # 181) on :
2 observations: I once asked a friend of mine who works for the justice department why the southbound crossing from Vancouver seemed more rigorous that from Quebec. "Drug traffic" was her reply.
The other thing that has struck me as I read this thread is the number of us who are partly made of metal! Bionic men and women? Who knew!
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Solo traveler, one way ticket, paid for in cash (currency) has been a trigger at airport security as far back as 1973 when all the hullaboo started.
Anyone remember the 1968 movie "Airport"? how much "security" was evidently active there?
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike Smith: Traveling to Vancouver, via Amtrak bus, I made the mistake of answering a question wrongly...
The Canadian customs agent noted (from my driver's license) I was from Texas and did I know the Canadian laws regarding guns. I said no, but I left all 47 of my guns at the house.
Wrong answer.
The bus waited on me and my bag to be thoroughly inspected by the agents (yes, another one came over to help).
As if anyone here did not alreadly know it:
It appears that to work in either airport security or customs, all sense of humor is surgically removed using a spoon and without anesthesia.
Your travel history is known, as well and that can raise flags. I got the special treatment upon entry into the USA for a couple of years after making a trip to the Philippines. My guess is because it had no identifiable purpose and no visible itinerary inside the country. No one met me. I got a taxi and told him to take me to a particular bus station. I traveled by bus and stayed with local friends, so I simply dissapeared from the radar for about three days, leaving no footprints left that the INS paranoids could see.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)