1939-41 or so, Super Chief 2, THE TWENTIETH CENTURY LIMITED and the City of Los Angeles were at that standard.
There were far more trains pre-Amtrak that looked like Amtrak does now... coaches, Pullmans and a cafe-diner.
No, that's a pipe dream, sorry. Even with my standard of LD service, I don't reach to the Blue Train.
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
Wow...that is incredible.
Posted by amtrak92 (Member # 14343) on :
That is a nice train, but I doubt amtrak could do it. I have heard that train is a luxury one. I agree with PullmannCo, a ton of trains used to be that way
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
You know, that looks just like our recent trip on the Crescent.
Ok, maybe not. But I do believe I'd still take the Panama Limited that maintained a superb level of service right up to the mid 60's.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
The nicest passenger train I've experienced firsthand would be VIA's 'Canadian' circa 2004.
Distant 2nd would be either Amtrak's 'Coast Starlight' circa Y2K or Southern Railway's 'Crescent' circa 1977.
The Crescent gets it on quality of food and level of service......Coast Starlight takes the prize for scenic splendor.
For those who have experienced both, how would VIA's 'Canadian' compare to a mid-1960's flagship such as the Broadway or Chief?
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
I was 10 when I rode my last pre-Amtrak train, the City of Los Angeles/City of Saint Louis in the summer of 1967. I remember the wonderful sheets of my section, and the Pullman blankets. I remember the wonderful meals in the dining car, and drinks (coke) in both the dome lounge and the (after Denver) club car. I remember the Porter teaching me how to work the trap and how the vestibule doors opened and shut.
I remember that a Pullman section was both wider than anything other than the lower of a deluxe bedroom now, and that the mattress of an upper berth was thicker than ANYTHING Amtrak has now.
I remember Pullman towels. I miss them.
Posted by rresor (Member # 128) on :
Now you've done it! There were once a number of trains in the US and Canada that were the equal of the "Blue Train". I grew up riding some of them. I remember:
1) The first time I had grilled fresh shad roe on toast, in the diner of the SAL "Silver Comet"
2) Pompano in a parchment bag, stuffed with shrimp, on the Florida Special
3) The faint jingle of heavy pewter flatware in the diner at speed, as the staff waited for the first dinner guests
4) Pullman berths, blankets, towels, and those carafes of ice water
5)Breakfast served in our Pullman rooms
6) Separate diners and lounges for coaches and sleepers
And all of this lasted until May 1, 1971. I don't believe, in all the years since, that a pair of fresh shad roe pods or a fresh pompano has ever entered an Amtrak commissary, anywhere.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
I'm pleased to see this topic evolve into one of pre-Amtrak memories, as I was getting ready to let loose a "not with public funds you don't' response to an Amtrak Blue Train.
While I can't help with any of the "fish stories" as I simply don't eat it, everything else noted here I got to experience during my pre-Amtrak riding days. While likely my Amtrak mileage amassed over thirty nine years now equals my pre-Amtrak amassed over maybe fifteen, there are a number of major Amtrak routes that I have not ridden during the Amtrak era. Absent a bona-fide need to go somewhere on such, I likely will never see them through an Amtrak window.
A forgotten vignette of Union Pacific Dining service aside from their Dome Dining (but that was more "marquee' than "vignette'), was their private label Cabernet and Chardonnay that was sold aboard the Diners. I had occasion to imbibe both and they were "good". While likely it is vinegar today, I have friends who have bottles of such in their railroadiana collection.
Finally, let's close with a nice word about perpetual whipping boy Amtrak; they too have offered Dome Dining service, let's see how long it takes for someone to come up with an answer for that. Maybe I'll be "coerced' to dig into the TRAINS and fire up the Xerox (whoops Minolta).
When getting all breathless about these train, remember they were all premium services for a clientelle willing to pay premium prices. these were not bread and butter rationally affordable for the usual transport of the general population trains.
I watched the Panama Limited come through Fulton KY a couple times and through Memphis northbound a couple times. It was beautiful and precisely on time, but getting close enough to touch it was not in my budget.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
George, I could still get breathless about IC's all coach, no extra fare, City of New Orleans with beautiful tavern lounge/ observation (with radio), full dining car, passenger agent and stewardess! Posted by 20th Century (Member # 2196) on :
So right George. I compare it to travelers who use first class air travel instead of coach. For the average person the price of an air coach ticket is more appealing. But I do wish the first class rail travel of days gone by was still an appeal to these first class air travelers of today. But the same day arrival on the East/West coast is the big draw for choosing air travel for the first class set. As Palmland noted the railroads did offer some mighty nice premium coach service as the one he mentioned and also the Empire State Express was another.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
quote:Originally posted by palmland: George, I could still get breathless about IC's all coach, no extra fare, City of New Orleans with beautiful tavern lounge/ observation (with radio), full dining car, passenger agent and stewardess!
So could I as a regular 1962-1964 rider, even though only between Memphis and Fulton KY.
Even though in 79 mph territory, if the train was the least bit late, north of Dyersburg where the track was near straight the mileposts would frequently be passing at 36 seconds each.
has anyone mentioned its usual 12 to 15 car length, sometimes seeing up to 4 coaches loaded at Memphis before the train gets in and then attached, between the St. Louis and Chicago cars?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
From material I previously submitted to "another forum":
Riding on the City of New Orleans, Illinois Central Monday morning rail Fifteen cars and fifteen restless riders, Three conductors and twenty-five sacks of mail
The de-facto Jim Crow line was at the Diner
Posted by Ocala Mike (Member # 4657) on :
With apologies to "Chicago Shorty" (the late Steve Goodman), this thread's got the disappearing railroad blues.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
Mr. Norman:
Yep, a 16 car train with 3 units on the front.
Don't know if any coaches were turned short at Carbondale, but if not, the train would get longer at Carbondale as from 2 to 4 coaches out of St. Lousi were added. (On the days the City of Miami operated, the southbound train out of St. Louis also carried one or more Miami coaches and a Miami bound sleeper for the CofM.
Back to the CNO: There were usually, on weekends at least, some coaches cut off southbound added northbound at Memphis.
Northbound, a RPO was added at Memphis. Do not rememeber what the RPO situation ws southbound. My bro-in-law, who is a retired mail carried said that, in talking to the former RPO clerks (he was not one) that the CNO was considered one wild ride for the RPO people. Except for 79 mph on the MoPac to Little Rock, all other lines out of Memphis had speed limits of 70 mph, 59 mph, or 55 mph and the trains, including the MoPac made more frequent stops.
Posted by mr williams (Member # 1928) on :
What sort of prices are we looking at?
Considering that a bedroom on the CZ or CS on popular dates can run to $1,000+ it might not be that pricey!
Posted by royaltrain (Member # 622) on :
The Blue Train, although run on a regular schedule, is basically a tourist train of the highest calibre. Its magnificent dining car is set out with the best quality linen, silver and china, not a bit of Amtrak’s cheap stainless steel or plastic. When I rode the train in the late 80's I had a fabulous suite consisting of a bedroom, a sitting room and a bathroom with an actual bathtub. Even in the grand era of American and Canadian Railways, no passenger had access to such a suite.
Although I remember eating in the beautiful silver and linen equipped dome diner of UP's City of Los Angeles in the mid 60's, it still didn't measure up to today's Blue Train for total luxury. Of course the luxury trains in the pre-Amtrak era, were meant to transport the first-class passenger in comfort and style, and at a substantial surcharge over coach travel. Travellers on the City trains, the Super Chief or the 20th Century Limited wanted the best, but would not have expected the ultra-luxury of the Blue Train. Even the best train in North America (I mean The Canadian of course) was not built for the luxury tourist market, but for its time (the mid 50's) it was an excellent first-class train similar to the now disappeared great trains in the U.S. The Canadian is still a fine train, although the silverware in the dining car is gone, it did improve other things such as putting a shower in the sleeping car, and providing many on-board amenities not seen during the CPR era.
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