I'm thinking about taking a trip to Colorado this fall to ride the Durango & Silverton and Cumbres & Toltec narrow-gauges. What's the best way to get there from Chicago? I expect a rental car will be needed at some point.
Posted by amtrak92 (Member # 14343) on :
California Zephyr to Denver, or the Southwest Chief to La Junta
Posted by RRCHINA (Member # 1514) on :
Alb is closer to both than Denver. Also SWC to Lamy and rent a car in Santa Fe is a good option.
Posted by Southwest Chief (Member # 1227) on :
We have a cabin near Durango (see the link in my signature for photos of our train layout at our place north east of Durango), but live most of the year in Southern California. We've tried pretty much every way there is to to get there, and (if taking the train) by far the best is the Southwest Chief to Albuquerque, New Mexico.
Multiple rental car locations in ABQ. We've used Budget near Comanche Road. They'll come and get you at the ABQ station.
Then you take I-25 to Bernallio (north of ABQ). At Bernallio, you get on the newly completed four lane highway 550 all the way to Durango. The four lanes end at the Colorado border, but this is by far the best highway in the region.
Gallup, New Mexico is actually closer distance wise to Durango, but the road (used to be the devil road 666) is not anywhere near as good as highway 550. Lots of traffic and you get stuck behind big rigs with little chance to pass on the dangerous two lane highway. So it takes nearly the same amount of drive time. And not much in the way of rental car options in Gallup.
The trek from ABQ to Durango is a good 3 and a half hour drive. But you'll find everything in the west is a long drive.
If you need any more info please feel free to ask. I know a lot more about the Durango area then Chama, but I've been to Chama a few times as well.
You can also fly into Durango, but it is super expensive to do (and involves connections at Denver), and then your rental car choices are extremely limited. Plus the Durango flight is a turbo prop which you may or may not prefer to fly on especially over turbulent mountains.
There just isn't a quick and easy way to get to the narrow gauge trains.
One thing I should add, you'll want to stay in Durango and then drive to Chama (highways 160 to 84 to 64). There are few places to stay or eat at in Chama when compared to Durango and there is next to nothing in Antonito.
And whatever you do, avoid coming from the north. The mountain passes and tight roads are not fun when you are expecting a relaxing vacation. This is especially bad if you have never experienced these roads before. Trust me on this one.
Oops almost forgot. The fall is a beautiful time of year with golden aspens. However the weather, while typically dry, can be nasty (nasty meaning snow storms). And the days are shorter so you will be driving at night.
Late Spring is the preferred time to be there (late May to mid June) as this is the dry season so the weather almost always cooperates for you. And there should be no major issue with fire danger this year thanks to a good snow pack thus far.
But if you really want to see golden aspens, October is the month for it. By November the leaves are mostly fallen.
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
Colorado is good for the railfan. I spent an enjoyable week beside the DRGW staying in a cabin at Plainview (http://www.coloradorailroadvacation.com/), visiting the Moffat Tunnel, then driving south. On the way to the Pike's Peak cog railway and the Royal Gorge railway I visted the museum at Golden. I've a vague feeling that there is a second rail museum in Denver as well.
I don't know whether all the above is do-able in whatever time you have available in addition to your existing plans, nor whether it's even within reasonable driving distance, but it evoked happy memories for me!
Posted by RussM (Member # 3627) on :
If you plan to do the Cumbres & Toltec in the Fall foliage season, be sure to make reservations well in advance. I did the trip in early September, and the docent said that they were fully booked up for the peak foliage viewing season, which started later in the month. Hotel rooms are very limited in Chama, but if you do the C & T from the Antonito end, you can find plenty of places to stay in Alamosa, CO. There are several trip options, but I recommend the full one-way trip, and going the other direction by motorcoach. In my opinion, the C & T is the greatest tourist train ride in the US.
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
Another rental car option in ABQ is to use the Hertz Amtrak station location when you book online. You save on the daily airport taxes/fees. There really is no Hertz at Amtrak, but they will reimburse your cab ride to their airport location, and then run you back by van when you return. I have done this often, and they are efficient and friendly folks. You might be able to get a discounted rate by linking to Hertz from the Amtrak site when you purchase your ticket.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Going by way of Albuquerque/Santa Fe would be fun especially if you haven't spent much time there.
An alternative, if coming from the east, would be to get off the SWC in Trinidad, CO. Hertz has an office there. The SWC arrives around 10 am, some 6 hours sooner than Albuquerque. According to AAA driving time to Alamosa is about 2 hours and another 2.5 to Durango. Yes you have to take US 160 over the Sangre de Cristo mountains, but I would consider that a plus, especially if in the fall when the Aspen are their golden best.
On the way to Alamosa, you might want to divert to LaVeta. It's off the beaten path and a wanna be artist town, but more importantly the turn around spot for the Rio Grande Scenic RR out of Alamosa. In Alamosa you can board the Rio Grande excurison or take their connecting train to Antonito for the ride on Cumbres and Toltec.
Between Alamosa and Durango, the Great Sand Dunes N.P. is well worth a diversion. Because of the steep grade, the eastbound Cumbres and Toltec trip from Chama is more impressive than the westbound. There are a couple ok places to stay in Chama. I like staying there because it is completely ungentrified - a real railroad town and home base for the many summer volunteers working on the railroad. But if you want big city and bright lights head to Durango. The historic Strater hotel is a great spot.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
Henry,
If you're flying, the airport at Colorado Springs is a decent option. It's closer to Antonito, CO than Albuquerque or Denver plus offered better rental car rates than either of the aforementioned airports when I was last there in 2008.
I've done the Cumbres & Toltec four times now and most enjoy the trip where you catch the bus from Antonito to Chama in the morning and then ride the train back. I prefer to ride the train FROM Chama because.....well..... because the constant braking for the last hour on the Chama bound train makes for a jerky ride.......the squeal of the brakes is somewhat unpleasant to me as well. (Yes, I know that's not an issue for you!)
Hotels - I usually stay in Alamosa where there are at least a handful of national chain motels. It's an easy 30-35 minute drive to Antonito from Alamosa. (The Rio Grande Scenic Railroad standard gauge trip over LaVeta Pass from Alamosa is worth a day while you're in the neighborhood.)
Finally - since you're there and you're going to have a great rental car anyway, try to allow a day to chase the Cumbres & Toltec train from Chama to Cumbres Pass and down into the high valley on the other side..... Highway 17 is in sight of the tracks most of the way and the scenery is spectacular.
Posted by chrisg (Member # 2488) on :
Take the Southwest Chief to Trinidad and contact JJ Motors and they will meet you with a rental car. There is a 150 mile a day thing but if you Do the Durango & Silverton, Cumbres and Toltec as well as the Rio Grande scenic Railroad, and stay in Durango and Alamosa you won't have a problem. We did it and also did the Royal Gorge as well on the same trip and the mileage never came in on it.
Chris
Posted by chrisg (Member # 2488) on :
One more thing, If you do both the C&T and Rio Grande Scenic stay in Alamosa and do the C&T bus out of Antonio to Chama and the train east. The Rio Grande Scenic is also worth a trip.
Alamosa is a good base of operations for both narrow gauges......and lodging is far more reasonable than in Durango.
Posted by chrisg (Member # 2488) on :
If you going to Durango there is a Best Western in Pagosa Springs that is not expensive. Durango cost an arm and a leg to stay at. It is a short drive in and out of Durango.
Chris
Posted by sojourner (Member # 3134) on :
Is there a way to get to these trains (from any Amtrak stop) without driving?
Posted by Southwest Chief (Member # 1227) on :
quote:Originally posted by sojourner: Is there a way to get to these trains (from any Amtrak stop) without driving?
Would be extremely difficult to do. Amtrak is nowhere close to either the Durango & Silverton or Cumbres & Toltec.
Take a look at this map where I show the approximate locations of Durango and Chama in relation to Amtrak's routes:
And the distances are extremely deceiving on this map since it does not show the roads nor the mountain ranges that hinder straight line travel.
However if you are up for a bus ride, then there is a daily Greyhound bus from Albuquerque to Durango (and back).
However the bus times do not always correlate the best with Amtrak as Greyhound likes to change the schedule seemingly monthly. So be sure to check this out on the Greyhound website.
And it is a long haul bus meaning it continues on from Durango east/north bound...possibly all the way to Utah. So it can and almost always is late into Durango heading south/west bound. For the south/west bound I believe Albuquerque may be an end terminus.
I've taken it before from Durango to catch the westbound Southwest Chief in ABQ. Pretty nice drive. I slept most of the way. Takes a while though. And again the schedule does not always work out since Greyhound likes to change it all the time.
The Greyhound bus depot in Durango is east of the Durango & Silverton depot by several blocks. I would guess maybe 3 miles away? Could be more as I've never walked the distance. It also is not in the best of neighborhoods. A new bus depot is currently being built and may already be completed. The new one is very close to the Durango and Silverton depot. Like a 4 min walk or less.
The Albuquerque Greyhound bus depot is the same building as the Amtrak depot. Can't be any easier then that.
Unfortunately, I know of no way to get to Chama via public transportation all the way.
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
From the east, the best way to get to Durango is to get off the SWC at Albuquerque and drive on the relatively new 4-lane divided hwy north (Hwy 44 to 550). From the west, get off at Gallup and go up 666 to 160, but those are 2-lane roads; however, the terrain is pretty flat in that part of the state.
To get to Durango from La Junta or Trinidad, you need to travel over the tortuous Hwy 160 over both La Veta Pass and Wolf Creek Pass -- very very rough, winding, twisting mountain highways, which will take quite a while to drive.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
Re: Mass transit -
Accessing either of these scenic railroads using Greyhound is going to require an overnight stay in either Albuquerque, Grand Junction, or Denver in BOTH directions as there is not a same day connection between the one daily Amtrak train in either direction and the one daily bus in either direction.
NOW - here is the strangest thing -
When I was in Colorado in 2008 I observed that there is one daily Greyhound Bus in either direction between Denver and Albuquerque that operates (and makes a station stop) via Alamosa, CO.
This bus then heads south towards Albuquerque passing through Antonito, CO without stopping. Antonito is not listed in the Greyhound timetable......not even as a flagstop. Which means, I'll bet, that Greyhound will not stop here to pick passengers up and may not even stop here to let passengers off........
Even though the bus encounters a stop sign and does stop moving about 50 yards from the Cumbres & Toltec Depot on the outskirts of Antonito.
There is lodging available at this instersection as well.....in the form of a 24 room cinder-block mom & pop motel.....the best Antonito has to offer.
Sad. Very sad.
Posted by rresor (Member # 128) on :
Well, I'm going to propose something totally different, based on what I did on my honeymoon almost 20 years ago. We took Amtrak's CZ to Grand Junction, and rented a car there. Stayed the night at a decent place in Delta, CO, then drove the "million dollar highway" from Telluride to Durango. What a trip? Yes, big mountains and winding, but very scenic. Durango is expensive to stay in, but worth it, I think. Try to take the first D&SNNG train to Silverton. Then you can drive to Chama without difficulty. Chama is a preserved railroad town; if you want to get a sense of what the narrow gauge was like in its prime, stay in Chama. We rode one way to Antonito, bus return, then drove via the Royal Gorge and Colorado Springs to Denver. Awesome trip.
Posted by Southwest Chief (Member # 1227) on :
quote:Originally posted by rresor: Well, I'm going to propose something totally different, based on what I did on my honeymoon almost 20 years ago....
Yes very nice trip. Only one big problem. The traffic is a heck of a lot worse now then it was 20 years ago. Yet the roads are essentially unchanged from 20 years ago. So your travel times are longer now.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
quote:Originally posted by rresor: ... then drove the "million dollar highway" from Telluride to Durango. What a trip? Yes, big mountains and winding, but very scenic. Durango is expensive to stay in, but worth it, I think. Awesome trip.
Don't you have to backtrack some to get on the Million Dollar Higway (US 550) from Telluride?
While it is spectacular, you will see some of this country from the Silverton train. I think a more interesting way to go is to continue south on highway 145 and take that scenic road over Lizard Head Pass. The attraction is that it follows the route of the abandoned Rio Grande Southern railroad whith glimpses of the former roadbed. There is a nice museum, and a preserved 'Galloping Goose' (ersatz self propelled coach converted from a bus to rail use) at the station in Dolores. This road leads you into Cortez, about 50 miles west of Durango and not far from Mesa Verde N.P.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
I acknowledge, I like Enya's work; her performing "Storms in Africa' indeed compliments this video.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by palmland:
quote:Originally posted by rresor: ... then drove the "million dollar highway" from Telluride to Durango. What a trip? Yes, big mountains and winding, but very scenic. Durango is expensive to stay in, but worth it, I think. Awesome trip.
Don't you have to backtrack some to get on the Million Dollar Higway (US 550) from Telluride?
While it is spectacular, you will see some of this country from the Silverton train. I think a more interesting way to go is to continue south on highway 145 and take that scenic road over Lizard Head Pass. The attraction is that it follows the route of the abandoned Rio Grande Southern railroad whith glimpses of the former roadbed. There is a nice museum, and a preserved 'Galloping Goose' (ersatz self propelled coach converted from a bus to rail use) at the station in Dolores. This road leads you into Cortez, about 50 miles west of Durango and not far from Mesa Verde N.P.
My experience with driving nearly anywhere in Colorado is that if you encounter anything that looks like an abandoned railroad grade, it probably IS an abandoned railroad grade. There is so much to discover there.
A favorite drive of mine is from Pagosa Springs southward to Alamosa.
