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I am in need of some technical knowledge. I am writing a "bring back the Del Monte" op-ed piece which I am planning to submit to my local paper.
One political roadblock the train revival has faced is the belief by the city council of Marina (which the Monterey Branch Line passes through)that passenger trains will rattle people's homes. A former city councilman, who lived near the tracks and served on the county rail transportation committee, said that when a demonstration train came to the area in 1995 it shook his whole house, rattling dishes, etc. From his description it sounded more like a 4.0 earthquake than a passing train. He then decided that trains did not belong in Marina and managed to convince the town to block them.
When I have been near passing trains, I have never felt anything like what he claims happened. In my experience train vibrations are pretty insignificant, certainly nothing compared to what my house has been subjected to from garbage trucks and the neighborhood lowrider's thumping subwoofer.
But anecdotal evidence is all I have to go on. Can anyone provide any technical expertise to aid me in my effort to ease people's fears? (Is George Harris still here?) I would also like to hear from anyone who lives or works near railroad tracks and get their experiences.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Mr. Toy, I'm afraid that there is some degree of foundation to the former Councilman's concerns.
There is a "not exactly attractive' condo development near my home built adjacent to the BNSF in which coal trains will often set off auto anti-theft alarms (play with "little Google Man" to see the tracks). If those trains are braking, my own home .02mi away will "shake' (and my home is a solid little structure the Three Little Pigs would be proud of).
Mr. Toy Member # 311
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GBN, I expect that a big coal train would have very different effects from a five-car passenger train. For starters, there's a huge difference in weight! And coal trains usually have several locomotives, whereas a commuter train would have only one. I'm looking for the effects of passenger trains specifically.
Also, I have heard that the quality of the rail bed can make a big difference. Can anyone address that?
palmland Member # 4344
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I can't give you any scientific data, but my freshman dorm and, later, fraternity, were within 50 yards of a double track mainline with freight and passenger trains that operated through town on a 40mph speed restriction.
After the first week, I was never aware of a train passing - and I was, of course, interested in seeing them. Yes, they make noise but somehow your mind quickly learns to tune them out. I was also never aware of any vibration.
Geoff Mayo Member # 153
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Jointed rail (stick rail) causes deep pounding of the terrain from wheels passing over the joints. Get the speed just right and something akin to natural frequency occurs - though probably more to the train than to the surroundings. A wheel flat can be immensely annoying as well.
Depending on the traffic, every couple of months or so, machines that repack the ballast (rocks) can give a gentle earthquake effect as they slowly pass.
I wouldn't be surprised if the quality of the rail bed makes a difference.
I could be considered a railfan, but not daft enough to actually live right next to a railway.
Mr. Toy Member # 311
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Geoff, I suspect that track conditions may have caused the "earthquake" alleged by the aforementioned city councilman. The line hadn't seen any traffic for about three or four years, and very little freight traffic in the twenty years before that. I'm sure it wasn't being maintained for optimum performance.
PullmanCo Member # 1138
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The soil, the subsoil and the bedrock all contribute to the issue.
The type of equipment used contributes to the issue.
Finally, there are NIMBYs who don't care what the truth is, they are going to fight you tooth and nail to keep trains away from their property.
HillsideStation Member # 6386
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Mr.Toy, I lived the first 18 years of my life less than a hundred yards from the Long Island's 4 track main line. Locals stopped at the station across from my house and the "LDs" to Nassau and Suffolk counties powered through pulled by some of the Pennsy's best cast off K4s, G5s, etc. Later the rumble of it's first FM diesel could be heard. In addition the LIRR's Holban "marshalling" yard was behind the station and I was lulled to sleep by the constant humping of frieights. At NO time did our house rattle or quake. Hillside/Deerpark/Ocala Mike should be able to confirm (or deny) my recollections. Best regards, Rodger
palmland Member # 4344
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I am surprised no one has suggested that a new HSR line might give good vibrations.
Ocala Mike Member # 4657
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Mr. Toy, HillsideStation and I were practically next-door neighbors, although we never met. Between 1959-1964, I lived at 180-01 93rd Avenue in Jamaica, Queens, NY, a literal stone's throw from the LIRR main line he described, and right across the street from the then Holban classification yard (now the Hillside Maintenance Facility). You can Google Earth my old address and see the old frame house still standing there to this day no more than a couple of hundred yards from the RR tracks. Lots of noise, but no shaking or vibration, as I recall, and we kind of got used to the noise.
Mr. Toy Member # 311
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Rodger & Mike, your experiences seem to coincide with my own observations. GBN offered a counterpoint, but we're not anticipating any coal trains. In my commentary I'm going with my own observations. It's just one line en route to making a larger point. Thanks for all the replies. Even anecdotal evidence helps. I was hoping George Harris might still be around to share his expertise.
If my commentary gets published (and after discussing it with the editor today I think it likely) I will post a link.
HillsideStation Member # 6386
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Mr. Toy,
I think your councilman friend who recalled trembling houses and rattling dishes watched the classic film "A Letter to Three Wives" once too often. In one scene, Paul Douglas calls upon a girl (Linda Darnell) who lives with her mother (Thelma Ritter)on the "wrong" side of the tracks. During his visit a number trains pass by with the afore mentioned house trembling and dishes rattling. But, as they say, only in the movies. Best regards, Rodger P.S. If you have an opportunity watch the film it's on DVD.
Mr. Toy Member # 311
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I think you're onto something, Rodger. If it wasn't that, it might have been the I Live Lucy episode where passing trains moved her bed around the room.
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