Too bad he can't back up his "observations" with photo evidence or witness statements. With BART, Caltrain, and ACE here in the Bay Area, if there's an empty seat, you take it. It's too bad this gentleman does not see life through a clear lens. But it's in the New York TImes, so it doesn't surprise me. This once wonderful newspaper sure has gone downhill....and this is one of many examples why. I wonder how long until they're bankrupt and go away?
Posted by RR4me (Member # 6052) on :
Wow...I agree that around here (BART and the San Joaquins) empty seats are taken, and the ones taken last are because the individual occupant has made it clear through posture, bags or looks etc. that they would prefer one looks elsewhere. But if the train is full, the seat is taken.
I am a little surprised at the vehemence with which you castigate the Times for printing a clearly op-ed piece?
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
My honest answer is that I am a hardcore conservative, and I find the New York Times repulsive. Just my opinion.....
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by smitty195: My honest answer is that I am a hardcore conservative, and I find the New York Times repulsive. Just my opinion.....
Respect the honest answer whether I agree or not.
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
Bart and Caltrain are local haul commutes. Acela is line haul, and premium fare to boot. There is a sociological difference, sadly.
Posted by RR4me (Member # 6052) on :
Smitty, just had never picked up the conservative outlook from previous posts. I honestly have never read the NYT. I thought it was an intersting article, but had all kinds of questions about his "methodology". Frankly, I don't doubt that there are some folks who may choose to sit elsewhere first, and frankly, I don't care.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
As one who has been reading The New York Times for now over sixty years, and who pays some $800 per year to have that "thump on the porch", I of course have to take exception to Mr. Andy Smith's comments.
Am I pleased with every piece of reportage or editorial position Grey Lady has taken, of course not. Case in point: here is recent coverage of the 'decline and fall" of LATimes owner, Tribune Company. I think some of the developments reported there are completely irrelevant to the issue at hand - a successful real estate developer with no media background to speak of made a bad bet; and others have paid for his mistake (what else is new post 9/15/08?).
I have no particular love for TribCo. I'm no baseball fan to speak of, I guess I read The Trib at the Barber Shop - can't think of where else. I never watch or listen to WGN (lest we forget, I'm not native to Chicago), and Southern Connecticut Newspapers, a one-time TribCo chain, did such a "botch job" on my Father's obit, I complained and they did a corrected rerun. (they couldn't even read what I typed and FAX'ed - and I carefully emulated their obit "style").
I do, in the interest of fairness and balance, read, including their 'silly symphony' op-ed pages, The Wall Street Journal. That is a $450 annual "thump..".
Finally, and like Mr. RR4ME, I caution the Forum to recognize the subject work is Opinion - one man holds these thoughts - not The Times Editorial Board.
Posted by TBlack (Member # 181) on :
I can't claim to ride the Acela as often as Prof. Wideman, but I do manage 10 trips a year, Boston to NYP and return (going on Mon. as a matter of fact), and I, too, like to sit in the quiet car. On MY trips, it's very rare if I have someone sitting next to me, and I don't have a convenient answer to that fact as the good professor does. I think what would have made his "sociological study" more complete would have been a survey of just how many vacant aisle seats there were on any given occasion. Also, he doesn't mention whether he was sitting in the aisle seat or the window seat which might encourage or discourage seatmates.
And GBN? I get the NYT on Sat. & Sun. It still remains a very good read, but I think it has fallen off from the days when dad Sultzberger was running the show. But then again, I'm a Smitty conservative, and my liberal friends think the paper is just fine; so what do I know?
And Smitty, Just to put things in perspective, I have a cousin in Seattle who thinks the NYT is a right wing nut case!
Posted by RR4me (Member # 6052) on :
Can't resist....TBlack, maybe on your next trip you can find the professor and sit by him, even if the car is near empty!
Posted by TBlack (Member # 181) on :
maybe I should give him a hug! But that would throw his survey all off!
Posted by sojourner (Member # 3134) on :
I didn't think the train was that busy north of NYC, where this professor rides, as it is between NYP and WAS. There may be some truth to what he says (and certainly he THINKS there is), but he sure is a fool for writing about it. Here he is, enjoying a "perk" for being black for one of the few times in his life--at least in his own mind--and instead of relishing his wonderful space and privacy, he blasts his observation all over the NYT, which is bound to have lots of readers on ACELA, some of whom are now going to make an effort to sit next to him (his picture is readily available on the Net). So he loses his "perk." What a dope!
Posted by irishchieftain (Member # 1473) on :
quote:Originally posted by smitty195: My honest answer is that I am a hardcore conservative, and I find the New York Times repulsive. Just my opinion.....
The NYT is currently an arm of the infamous Bertelsmann Media Group through a "partnership", the details of which are presented as rather unclear. They do share the penchant for anti-US propaganda with their Bertelsmann "partner", Der Spiegel magazine. I have very little respect for the NYT in that vein, and it's no wonder their reader revenue has been tanking.
Posted by sojourner (Member # 3134) on :
I'm sorry, please provide support for your allegation that the New York Times is part of Bertelsmann. It is my understanding that the NY Times sold off NY Times BOOKS to Bertelsmann some time back but that NY Times Books thereafter had nothing to do with the NY Times. (Bertelsmann also bought other book companies, including Random House, as I recall.) It is also my understanding that The NY Times Company (which publishes other newspapers besides the Times, including the Boston Globe) has nothing to do with Bertelsmann.
Posted by Ocala Mike (Member # 4657) on :
sojourner, no need to be sorry, and thanks for clearing the air.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
quote:Originally posted by sojourner: I'm sorry, please provide support for your allegation that the New York Times is part of Bertelsmann. It is my understanding that the NY Times sold off NY Times BOOKS to Bertelsmann some time back but that NY Times Books thereafter had nothing to do with the NY Times. (Bertelsmann also bought other book companies, including Random House, as I recall.) It is also my understanding that The NY Times Company (which publishes other newspapers besides the Times, including the Boston Globe) has nothing to do with Bertelsmann.
Look under "Global Partners" on the Spiegel home page in English. Some might also find it interesting that the NY Times, the Manchester Guardian and der Spiegel all collaborated on the release of the "War Logs", i.e. the WikiLeaks affair (one might well wonder why Julien Assange picked those three).
As for the NYT in particular related to rail, they seem highly neutral to me and not particularly well-informed; this op-ed, which features politicization, would be their usual fare though.
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: "Letters are pouring in":
Well how can this be? President Obama is supposed to be the first post-racial, post-partisan, post-hate America president ever. This just can't be.
Posted by Tanner929 (Member # 3720) on :
The NYTimes readership has gone down because many of its core suburban readers are tired of being that they are greedy racists who have destroyed the country. Not suprised that the Professor teaches at one of the Ivy's which has so many segregated departments its a wonder why they still think this is 1969. Riding Commuter trains and buses everyone see's groups sit in their "comfort zones" unless of course the bus or train is crowded. WIth all the governments housing studies most area's are somewhat segregated and when they are mixed it is due to ecomomic factors. Living in an Ivy town I always laugh at how the majority residence are always so proud of the one or two minorities that live in their neighborhoods, and yes often they are professors associated with the college. I think subcriptions to college library's are the only thing keeping that paper afloat. Read the New York Post it's a much better paper.
Posted by sojourner (Member # 3134) on :
Well, that plump lady is right: I would probably avoid her in choosing my seat. When I have to sit next to someone on the train, I try to choose someone skinny who looks like they won't make noise. I also pay attentionto those sitting in nearby seats. The number 1 thing I avoid is anyone traveling with a child, especially a baby.
Posted by rresor (Member # 128) on :
Well, I'm a frequent traveler on regionals between PHL and WAS, and I'm also a "person of size" (currently about 250 lbs.). That hasn't stopped anyone from sitting next to me, though. And just BTW, it hasn't stopped ME from sitting next to Orientals, Indians, or "people of color". A seat is a seat, and you only pay for one, you only get one. Methinks the professor should just enjoy his peace and quiet. If Acela Express were busier on the north end of the line, he might end up with company he didn't like much (like me -- oh, yes, I'm a political conservative).
Posted by irishchieftain (Member # 1473) on :
This whole affair does beg the question as to why Mr. Wideman (interesting surname) doesn't ride the more "cosmopolitan" Northeast Regionals up to Providence. Takes a bit longer, but they do have quiet cars, and for far less dough. Maybe Mr. Wideman really doesn't want someone sitting next to him?
Posted by RR4me (Member # 6052) on :
Henry, Henry, Henry....so much for offering w/o comment!
Posted by TBlack (Member # 181) on :
RR4me, OK, I did as you asked...no Prof. Wideman on my train yesterday, so I had no option to sit next to him, neither did anyone else. And actually, south of New Haven EVERY seat on the train was taken, so, if he had been on the train, he'd have had a seatmate! His survey is intact! And the train was on time.