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I think my questions got lost in my report on my travels, but I was asking if anyone knows for sure if Amtrak is planning to stop in newly restored old station in St Paul and another station in downtown Minneapolis instead of the terribly located Midway Station, and also when any changes might take place. Also, I know the Great Northern station was torn down in Minneapolis, but if a new downtown station is contemplated there, might it be at that depot near the Renaissance hotel I saw downtown--and what was it the depot for?
Also, when I go to the area again, much as I preferred St Paul, I think I will have to stay in downtown Minneapolis because I will be taking a bus from Hawthorne St station (to Pierre and/or Rapid City SD), since the bus station in St Paul is supposed to be unpleasant and also since buses don't leave as conveniently from it. So I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions for a decently priced safe (for woman alone) well located hotel in downtown Minneapolis. I prefer Hilton chain or Holiday Inn if possible but another hotel is fine if price is right.
Thanks!
notelvis Member # 3071
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Hi Sojourner,
I found a last minute special online and spent the night in this downtown Minneapolis Hotel for just over $100 in July 2009. It's a place that any railroad enthusiast would enjoy and it gets two thumbs-up from our own GBN.
Admittedly, this hotel is probably pricier than what you are hoping to find..... I know that I ordinarily would not seek out a downtown Marriot unless there is a really good special available.
You might also consider a hotel located adjacent to the Mall of America (there is a Country Inn & Suites there....among others....) which is a 25 minute light rail ride from downtown Minneapolis.
As for Amtrak returning to St. Paul Union Depot, it is being talked about. Plans to renovate the building by September 2012 are well underway and a light rail station is planned in front of the building. Here's a newspaper article from this past August
Note that the article suggests that Amtrak will move in once the renovation is complete BUT stops short of saying that such is a 'done deal'.
Finally, here is a blog post which reports that just yesterday, November 22, the USDOT and the local transit authority folks entered into an agreement which will allow the renovation to get underway -
The bottom of the blog includes an interior photo from SPUD.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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quote:Originally posted by sojourner: ....... but if a new downtown station is contemplated there, might it be at that depot near the Renaissance hotel I saw downtown--and what was it the depot for?
Ms. Sojourner, "that depot" was "my" MILW's. On enough occasions over my eleven years there, did I attend a meeting within the second floor offices.
The adjoining hotel is a Marriott Renaissance, which is third down in the Marriott "pecking order' (Ritz-Carlton, and JW are on top in that order)
sojourner Member # 3134
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Thanks for the info. What is MILW's, Mr Norman. And what was the depot when it was a depot?
TwinStarRocket Member # 2142
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To answer your last question: http://www.thedepotminneapolis.com/ Just click on history. No tracks come anywhere near the old Milwaukee Depot anymore (now a Marriot property). The beautiful iron train shed is now an ice rink. So, in answer to your first question in this thread, there is no Minneapolis depot that can be restored for passenger service. If you don't stay at the depot, stop by to look at least. It is a nice area and close to the scenic Stone Arch Bridge, now for pedestrians but previously used to get passenger trains into downtown.
The "MILW's" was a terminal (dead-end) station owned by the "Milwaukee Road" (short for Chicago. Milwaukee, St. Paul and Pacific) but also host to Rock Island and Soo Line among others. In my youth I would marvel at the beautiful Hiawatha streamliners with their "Great Domes" headed for Chicago and Tacoma. Also it was the northern end of the Twin Star Rocket (shameless plug) route to Houston....from the North Star state to the Lone Star state.
Downtown Minneapolis is no longer on any main rail route except for the secondary BNSF route to Fargo via Wilmar (which the Empire Builder used back in the 70's). By 2014, Central Corridor Light Rail should connect downtown Minneapolis to either near the current Amtrak Station or a new one in St. Paul Union Station. I doubt Minneapolis will ever see it's own station for Amtrak.
sojourner Member # 3134
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Thanks for all the info. TwinStar, we did stop in the depot by the Renaissance hotel there--very nice--it is a shame it could no longer ever be used as a train station. I saw a lightrail station nearby, though, yes? My impression overall was that downtown Minneapolis had knocked down so much--too much--and that St Paul was by and large the far more interesting city to walk around in. However (a) I wasn't in Minneapolis as long, and (b) I did really like the area around the river, including the Mills Museum (unable to visit but it looked very interesting), the stone bridge (we in fact walked across --see my report above) and the area on the other side (we walked by the old Pillsburgh building, saw the oldest house) and Nicollet Island (part of the loop we made in walking). I was very exciting to walk across the Mississippi!
I hope St Paul is able to restore its station and Amtrak stops there instead of the dreadful Midway Station--with a good lightrail connection that allows for luggage, that could work fine. But I thought Minneapolis was planning some sort of new station for Amtrak, no?
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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quote:Originally posted by sojourner: Thanks for the info. What is MILW's, Mr Norman. And what was the depot when it was a depot?
Ms. Sojourner, MILW was the reporting mark assigned by the AAR to the Chicago, Milwaukee St Paul & Pacific RR - my employer from June 1970 to Dec 1981.
The Depot at Third and Washington has both the Head House and the Train Shed largely intact. Of course, it was used by the MILW (CP) but also by the SOO Line (CN), and Mr. Twin Star's Rock Island (UP). Since the station was a stub end, the Olympian Hi had to back into the Depot; possibly others did so as well.
sojourner Member # 3134
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It seemed to be right by the light rail; couldn't it ever be used as a station again?
Isn't the Rock Island the route that might start up into Iowa City, too?
I fear I don't know much about rail history, but I do know the song. It seems the Rock Island went to Heaven too, according to the lyrics. . . . !!!
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Correct Ms Sojourner; the route over which the Chi-Iowa City train would operate is to be BNSF-Wyanet-IAIS. Since there is no physical interchange between the roads at Wyanet, one would have to be built.
IAIS, Iowa Interstate, is the operator of the former Rock Island Lines that would be used.
posted notelvis, that's a great deal -- $100 -- for downtown Minneapolis. And that's a swell hotel.
I've been going to Minneapolis like once a year since 2002 and I stay all over the place there. My last trip in June I stayed at Wayzata Doubletree Park Place for $79 (group rate). It's a great hotel, on City Bus Route 9.
Interestingly, hotel rates in MSP are as high as some other cities nationally.
sojourner, if I could get into a swell downtown Minneapolis hotel for (like notelvis) "just over $100," I'd jump on that.
And here's the official site for the renovation project for Minnesota's Union Depot project, and a photo of current structure. And a Pioneer Press report from last week.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Interesting to learn that the SPUD may have a reincarnation as a transit facility. The big question I guess is will it become an Amtrak station stop?
Unlike other Jointly Owned Terminal Companies, Amtrak has NEVER used SPUD as a station. Effective A-Day, the Empire Builder was interchanged from the MILW to the BN out at the Bluffs yard South of town and then operated directly (the "Hill" trains backed into SPUD - MILW ran through) to its only Twin Cities stop at the Great Northern Station on Hennepin Ave. When the existing station was opened, the Builder (and Hi) started to use the present MILW route through St Paul (and SPUD) to the Minnesota Transfer's line along which the present station was built and interchange to the BN.
Only problem aside from "the usual' ($$$ and all that stuff), is that if St Paul gets a convenient downtown stop, safe assumption Minneapolis will want one as well - and in view of Stone Arch being abandoned, that would be a tall order to fill.
I'll defer to Mr. Twin Star for any comments he chooses to make regarding the rivalry between the two cities - they just love each other; don't they?.
notelvis Member # 3071
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Chief - I believe that it was $109.00 before taxes that I paid (for a one night Friday stay) in Minneapolis booking through Expedia in July 2009..... I recognized at the time that this was exceptionally low for that property..... and a rate that I've not seen repeated since..... I did look as we were back in Minneaplois this past year.
As for SPUD, I think Amtrak is willing to make the move so long as other agencies are the ones doing the heavy lifting
rresor Member # 128
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I've stayed at the Renaissance in the former MILW depot, and highly recommend it. If it's too pricey, there's an adjacent Residence Inn (next to the former trainshed) that also looks nice. Either is just a couple of blocks from the light rail line.
Ms. Sojourner, give Minneapolis a chance. It has a very nice downtown, and the Skywalks are wonderful during the winter weather.
One Minneapolis option for Amtrak might be the Northstar commuter station north of downtown. It's on the "Wlllmar Line", but that line, which had been 40 MPH and used mainly by grain trains, has recently been upgraded by BNSF. Amtrak's "Builder" could be re-routed that way to Fargo, stopping in Minneapolis at the commuter station. It's current a stub-end station, but that could be easily remedied. And it connects directly to the light rail.
notelvis Member # 3071
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Getting 'historical', the Empire Builder did operate via Willmar on the former GN route at Amtrak's inception. It was not until the North Coast Hiawatha was discontinued in 1979 that the Builder shifted to it's current (former NP) route via St. Cloud.
My guess is that the Builder might have continued via Fargo after 1979 had Amtrak not have already moved out of downtown Minneapolis to the Midway Station.
TwinStarRocket Member # 2142
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Mr. Norman, there is not much of a rivalry between Minneapolis and St. Paul. Mpls has the pro football and baseball stadiums and the University of MN. St. Paul has pro hockey, the twin domes of the capitol and the cathedral, and many smaller colleges. Downtown StP has a rep for being dead at night, while Mpls is busier and glitzier. As for who gets Amtrak, it would be a tiny fraction of the population who even cares.
I grew up in Mpls and I've worked and lived in StP all my adult life (by choice). St. Paul is almost the small town that does not want to be Minneapolis. Minneapolis has a magnificent parks and trails systems and several beautiful lakes. Those who visit in the 3 non-winter months should definitely visit Lake Calhoun or Minnehaha Falls.
SPUD wants Amtrak. It is also intended to be the Chicago HSR end point. The planned Red Rock Commuter Rail from Hastings may go to through SPUD to Minneapolis.
The Northstar commuter rail station in Mpls is just a platform at the ballpark. The current ugly Amtrak Midway Station does have sidings and hookups for private cars and there are some beautiful PV's parked there. It also has free parking and is walking distance from my house. It is more convenient to get to by car then the downtowns, and is actually closer to Minneapolis. It will be about 2 blocks from the future light rail line.
If the EB switched to the Wilmar line, Amtrak would lose St. Cloud and Detroit Lakes, which have significant populations but are served at oh-dark thirty. Both routes serve Fargo.
RRRICH Member # 1418
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Back in the days when AMTRAK still ran both the Empire Buider and the North Coast Hiawatha, weren't both the former NP and former GN lines used at the same time for a few years? If I recall properly, one of the two trains took the GN through Willmar, and the other took the current NP line through St. Cloud and Detroit Lakes, didn't they?
rresor Member # 128
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You're correct. As long as the "North Coast Hi" ran, it used the ex-NP line, and the "Builder" went via Willmar, which was the former GN main and the fastest route out of the Twin Cities.
The Northstar station would actually be a pretty good location for a downtown Minneapolis stop, since it connects to the light rail and is just north of downtown. There is plenty of room on the ROW for platform and storage tracks. Only problem -- you'd have to run the train via Willmar.
Amtrak chose its currently "Midway" station, I suspect, in large part because if there was to be only one train, it would need to use the ex-NP, and with connections into Minneapolis via the stone arch bridge removed, the train would run up the east side of the Mississippi, which would mean it would altogether miss downtown Minneapolis. So Midway was a good compromise choice.
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