My wife and I are planning our first train trip this fall. We are planning on taking the Empire Builder out from Cincinnati and the California Zephyr back. I have gotten the answers to most of our questions from the Amtrak website but we are curious about the domed viewing cars. Are the seats in those cars available on a first come first serve basis or do you have to reserve them? I would appreciate any help or advice.
Posted by Ocala Mike (Member # 4657) on :
Good luck catching the Empire Builder in Cincinnati. Better take the Cardinal to Chicago and connect with it there.
As far as "domed viewing cars" are concerned, not sure if any of your trains even have them. If they do, I believe it's first come, first served.
Posted by train lady (Member # 3920) on :
Mr. Buckeye what Mike means is the Builder does not go to Cincinnati unless they have changed the route. It stops in Chicago. The Zephyr also runs no farther than Chicago.The Cardinal is the Cinci train New york-DC- Chicago. You will have to change trains there. (Chicago, that is)
Posted by Mike Smith (Member # 447) on :
The sightseer car seating is first come, first served. That said, the Zephyr is the route that gets crowded in the sightseer car, especially through the Rockies. Usually you can easily find a seat in the Empire sightseer car.
I would recommend getting a sleeper both ways. Your trip will be much more enjoyable.
Posted by irish1 (Member # 222) on :
are you taking the empire builder to seattle or portland and taking the coast starlight down to san fran or sacremento to catch the zephyr back to chi? some people on this board could really help you with tips on where to stay in any towns you might be staying overnight. also things like what is the best side of the train to sit on for certain routes. need some more info on your trip to help more. enjoy
Posted by buckeye59 (Member # 15995) on :
I left out the part about us taking the Cardinal from cincy to chicago. We are planning to book a roomette. The main reason we are visiting california is to see the giant redwoods and will be renting a car to get from portland to sacremento.
Posted by Mike Smith (Member # 447) on :
I assumed you knew how to get from Cincy to Chicago...
That said, your trip sounds like it will be great. The Sequoias are stunning trees and well worth the trip.
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
Just one comment, Buckeye, to add to the other very good comments you receievd -- the Sighstseer Lounge car on the Empire Builder and Zephyr is NOT a "domed" car -- you are likely thinking of the old Vista-Dome cars that used to be very common. Sightseer Lounges are bi-level cars, and the upper level has large windows which wrap around up into the roof, so you can see quite a bit from them. They are not "domes," and, as others have said, seating is first come first served. The Sightseer Lounge cars have a snack bar in the lower level, where you can buy munchies, drinks, etc.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Mr. Buckeye, there are many an experienced Amtrak traveler here including one, Chris Guenzler, who uses handle 'chrisg' and has documented Amtrak travel in excess of one MILLION miles.
Now regarding your proposed trip, so long as sightseeing appears to be an objective of such, if possible I would suggest taking #5, Zephyr, Westward and #28, Empire Builder, Eastward. A WW journey on the Zephyr means X-ing the Rockies by Daylight, during Autumn EW will be either at dusk or darkness. An EW Builder (edited to reflect originator's intent to start travel at Portland vice Seattle) travels the Columbia River daylight, but for the Rockies, you will have to awake early. As for the rest of the trip, I will say, "if you've seen one one wheatfield, you've seen 'em all'. In short, not much in the way of scenery.
Now regarding Sleeping Car accommodations, even though the Roomette has two bunks, that does not make it a two person accommodation (think the "clowns in a Volkswagen" skit). Get Bedrooms for your Zephyr and Builder journeys. However, for your Cinci-Chi journey on The Cardinal, a Roomette will be OK as the best you can hope for on that leg would be a "catnap' or two. But should you have any personal mobility issues, including excessive body weight, a Roomette for two persons is simply out of the question.
Finally, regarding the immediate comment made by RRRICH, here is a photo of a Vista Dome car that is no longer operated by Amtrak. They replaced such with Sightseer Lounges; therefore any references in this topic to 'domes', "lounges' or even "observation cars" are addressing this latter style of car.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
You might consider taking the Zephyr out to CA and the Builder on the return. More daylight for the best scenery that way - the climb up the mountains from Denver westbound is especially spectacular.
Cincinnati is my all time favorite station. Although with just one train in the middle of the night, it is now mostly just a very good museum. But, it is well worth allowing some time to explore it during the day.
As huge as it is, imagine a grand concourse extending over 17 tracks where the Imax theater now stands. Seven railroads had trains there with classic streamliners to all points of the compass. The murals in the rotunda are a real work of art. Sadly, when the concourse was demolished, the murals on its walls were moved to the airport where, I understand, they are no longer visible to the public. It really is a 1933 art deco masterpiece.
It is still a great place to start of train trip, just too bad it's not at a better time of day.
Posted by Ocala Mike (Member # 4657) on :
Agree with palmland about Cincinnati's railroad station. The "Queen City" exemplifies more than most the "disappearing railroad blues."
Just one question. Shouldn't you be "bearcat59"?
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
The major difference between the old dome cars and the Amtrak sightseer lounge is no window in the front anymore, because the roof of the whole (bi-level)train is the same height. I do recommend for the spectacular ride up the hill west of Denver with 28 tunnels, that a seat toward the rear of the sightseer lounge gives you more range of vision forward.
Posted by buckeye59 (Member # 15995) on :
Thanks everyone, this is very helpful stuff. I will seriously consider the Zephyr west and Builder east option. As for the roomette being too small, the bigger rooms just cost more than we want to spend. If nessessary we can sleep in the seats (are they as big as the coach seats?)and still have the privacy of the sleeper. Ocala Mike, I'm just buckeye because I'm from Ohio. As for Union terminal I love it but have never been there other than to see the museum. Their website has a confusing "business hours" schedule and I need to know if they have a parking lot I'd want to leave a car in for two weeks. I may have to just go there and check it out.
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
In the 2 roomette seats that face each other, you kind of share the same foot space and they don't recline. The beds are comfy but the top has no window and is close to the ceiling, especially bad for anyone with claustrophobia. Sleeping in a roomette seat would be more difficult than a coach seat.
With the lower bed down, your standing room is barely larger than your ankles. It is possible to lower only the top bunk and still have both seats and a bit of floor available. It is basically a cozy place to crawl in and sleep and nothing else. Bring duct tape or pins for the sometimes worn out velcro on aisle curtains to insure complete privacy. There is a lockable (from inside only) sliding door with large windows. If an outside curtain is drawn, your privacy in stations is not so good.
My favorite way to use roomettes is for sleeping and privacy, and spend the rest of the time in the sightseer lounge. No need for a bedroom unless you prefer your own shower, toilet and a big lower bed with standing room. Westbound out of Denver you must stake out a lounge seat early.
I have been on an eastbound Empire Builder with a more than full lounge through Glacier. They sell space even though coach seats are sold out for people who want to take day round trip on the train through Glacier from Whitefish and back. That and Denver are the only 2 spots I know of where you may have to really plan breakfast around staking out a lounge seat well before the train leaves Denver or WFH. The Columbia River Gorge generally has a full lounge too, but seats may open up over time. Eastbound, just go right there in the Portland station and you will be fine.
You could also consider a car drop-off in Eugene to avoid the Portland traffic.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
I concur with others who have suggested that you consider the California Zephyr westbound and the Empire Builder back..... simply because if your Empire Builder is an hour (or more) late you will cross Marias Pass adjacent to Glacier Park after dark....
And after spending the entire day crossing North Dakota and Montana it would be a shame not getting that scenic payoff at the end of the day.
If you do use this 'clockwise' routing, I'd also plan an overnight stay in Oregon or Seattle before catching the Empire Builder..... this way you won't spend your entire ride on the Coast Starlight worrying about whether you'll make your connection. Again, it would be a shame missing a ride up the Columbia River (between Portland and near Pasco) because you're on a bus trying to catch up to the train in Pasco or Spokane.
Posted by Ocala Mike (Member # 4657) on :
buckeye59, nothing wrong with being from Ohio. I work with a guy who's originally from the Dayton area, and he never lets me forget it.
Hope you and your wife have a great trip, however you decide to manage it, and hope you get back to Ohio and write Gov. Kasich (who seems to be a railphobe) to tell him about your trip.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
To TwinStarRocket's sensible advice about getting a seat toward the rear of the westbound Zephyr lounge car out of Denver, I'll add two things:
1. Sit on the right side of the car (facing toward the locomotives). That way you will have the best view as the train mounts the Front Range, and as it snakes through the mountains for the first 90 minutes or so. After Granby try to get to the left side for the best views of Byers, Gore and Little Gore Canyons. Return to the right side for the ride through Glenwood Canyon.
2. Claim your lounge car seat well before the train departs Denver. I often don't get off at Denver but take a book to the lounge car as soon as the train stops. There are always a dozen or so people who have the same idea.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
buckeye59,
Take Henry's advice - after all, he literally 'wrote the book' on riding the California Zephyr!
While I'm thinking about that - I spent some time rearranging a couple of shelves on my railroad bookcase today - Henry, you're now between a collection of stories by one Rogers E.M. Whitaker and a book by George Scheer titled 'Booked on the Morning Train'..... kind of a travel narrative section if you will.
Posted by train lady (Member # 3920) on :
I sound like a broke record on the subject of roomettes.we never had a problem with one.It just takes a bit of creativity.During the day the carry ons sat on the steps going up to the top berth. At night either under the bed (but they must be flat) or on the end of my bed (lower). I am 5 ft. 4 so they didn't bother me. My husband was a little over 6 ft and he had no problem. just took his clothes down to the upper level bathroom and changed there. We found that while in the room we could be comfortable with my feet on the side of his seat and visa versa. Also you can put a carry on on the floor and put your feet on that. In short we never had a complaint and enjoyed our trips some of which were all the way to the west coast from DC.In my book anything is better than coach. A lot depends on your attitude. We put up with things that we never would have at home but travel is an adventure and if you expect luxury you either pay a lot for it or stay home. I could write a book on all the screwy things that happened on our trips. And now I will get off my soap box.
Posted by Ocala Mike (Member # 4657) on :
quote:Originally posted by notelvis:
Henry, you're now between a collection of stories by one Roger E.M. Whitaker
David, that name rings a bell. Didn't he write articles on rail travel "back in the day" under a pseudonym, E. M. Frimbo? I seem to remember reading some of his stuff off library shelves as a youngster.
Posted by irish1 (Member # 222) on :
can always count on the fine folks here to help out. i rest my case!
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
quote:Originally posted by train lady: I sound like a broke record on the subject of roomettes.we never had a problem with one.
You're not alone! Two grown men sharing a roomette is fine in most cases. If you have oodles of money then by all means go for the bedroom, but don't feel slighted just because a few on here shout "don't do the roomette" as if it's some kind of legal requirement.
(Can I share your soapbox, train lady?)
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
Perhaps the level of antipathy toward two-in-a-roomette depends on the intensity of one's arthritis?
Posted by train lady (Member # 3920) on :
Geoff, you may share my soap box any time . There is always room for others (who agree with me!!!) A man and woman also do just fine in most cases Henry, My arthritis didn/t complain at all. On the other hand my husband very nicely took the upper berth
Posted by Mike Smith (Member # 447) on :
I agree with Geoff and train lady. My wife & I have taken numerous trips in the roomette with minimal problems and considerable savings, vs the bedroom cost. (We are approaching 100,000 Amtrak miles)
That said, I do like the bedroom for those 2:00am trips to the restroom.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ocala Mike:
quote:Originally posted by notelvis:
Henry, you're now between a collection of stories by one Rogers E.M. Whitaker
David, that name rings a bell. Didn't he write articles on rail travel "back in the day" under a pseudonym, E. M. Frimbo? I seem to remember reading some of his stuff off library shelves as a youngster.
That's correct Mike - he wrote under the name E.M. Frimbo.
Also in my collection......nearby but not directly adjacent.... are several of the travel narratives by Paul Theroux. My favorite of these is probably 'The Old Patagonian Express'. I really enjoy Theroux's accounts of the trains and places he has been but I get hung up a bit on his cultural analysis. Yes, I find it interesting to read his observations BUT Theroux throughout maintains kind of an aristocratic aloofness. Perhaps this is neccessary for giving an unbiased account but as often as not it comes across as an air of superiority.....
BUT then I would have enjoyed replicating some of his travels to the degree that it was still possible. Closest I ever came though was briefly dating a girl who had done some mission work in South America and was completing a degree in Spanish!
Posted by sojourner (Member # 3134) on :
On balance, I'd recommend you go out on the Zephyr and back on the Empire Builder if you can, esp as you are traveling in autumn, when days are shorter. For me, it's not so much because of the Empire Builder--changing to eastbound on that train at that time of year will likely mean that you will miss the Columbia River Gorge (Portland to about Pasco), arguably just as lovely as Glacier Park. What's more, I don't know WHEN in autumn you are traveling, but if it's September, chances are you will see some of Glacier Park westbound, although you will definitely miss the entirely Mississippi River (which, though third on the scale of nice scenery on the EB, is still quite nice since the train really "does" the Mississippi, unlike the Zephyr and SW Chief, which merely cross it).
But no, the reason I urge you consider changing is because of the Zephyr. Eastbound on the Zephyr in autumn means missing too much of the run from Salt Lake City to Denver, which is probably the most gorgeous of any scenery Amtrak offers. ESPECIALLY if the train is late--and eastbound, the Zephyr is quite often late by the time it gets into Colorado, at least in my experience.
As to the debate about sleepers and so on, keep in mind Amtrak has 2 kinds of sleepers, Viewliner (your Cardinal) and Superliner double decker (Empire Builder and CA Zephyr). The latter has nice observation cars with plenty of glass where you can spend a lot of time, so if you have a roomette you don't have to be there so much! It also has a shelf on the lower level of each sleeping car (near where you enter) where you can leave your larger luggage (at your own risk, of course, but I've never had any trouble--you might mark it in some way so it doesn't look like everyone else's)--and still have access to it during your 2-day trip between Chi and the West Coast.
You definitely don't want to bring your larger luggage into any shared roomette--just bring overnight bag (more on what to put in that in another post--but when you have your larger luggage accessible on that shelf, it's not so crucial what to put in for overnight).
Superliner roomette passengers use hall toilets (1 on upper level--several more, plus changing room/shower, on lower level), and the roomettes have no commodes and sinks, nor are there windows on the upper berth. I think you'll be fine sharing these, as long as you aren't too fussy. If you feel cramped for space, just make use of the observation car; there is also time spent in the dining car, which is generally very pleasant and good for viewing scenery too (and making friends).
Also, unless you have trouble with steps, I'd recommend getting a sleeper on the upper level of Superliners. The scenery is much better, there IS that one upper-level hall toilet, and the dining car and observation/lounge car are all on the upper level. (I forget which numbers are the lower level rooms--maybe 11-14? plus the handicapped room)
The Viewliner trains, such as the Cardinal, are single level. Roomettes do have windows in the upper berth, and there is a commode and sink in the roomette. They also tend to have better lighting than the Superliner roomettes for night reading, though some of the latter has improved lately. BUT there is no hall toilet, which is often a problem for two people sharing one roomette (there is a hall shower, btw). Sinks are fine for shared use, of course, but every time 1 person needs to use a toilet, the other either has to leave or shut his/her eyes! And if very odiferous, the odor is right there! If neither course is amenable, the person using the facilities has to go through several cars to the lounge or sometimes coach cars, neither of which is always that clean, esp as the trip progresses. . . .
The Viewliners have only a regular lounge, not a sighseer lounge--i.e., much smaller windows, no swivel chair seating--still OK for viewing but not great, and often crowded with coach passengers eating not to mention 2-3 tables of train staff doing paperwork and whatnot.
Being single level also means there is no lower level to leave larger luggage. Cincinnati now has checked luggage, I believe, but whether you can check just as far as Chicago (which I'd recommend, I think, though it will cut into your time in Chicago picking it up), I don't know--others might comment on this--but if you check luggage all the way to the West Coast, it means no access to it for 3 nights, right? Again, others must comment. (There is also the possibility it might get lost in transfer in Chicago, but I don't think this happens too often on Amtrak.)
For these reasons, traveling on a Viewliner, it's much better to get a room if you are two people (or 2 roomettes, if cheaper). However, as you are traveling only between Cincinnati and Chicago, I again think you'll be OK. The Cardinal is not Amtrak's greatest train, anyway, and the very fine scenery it offers is east of Cincinnati, so you won't see that.
Finally, I just want to mention that Chicago Union Station, where you will be making your change of trains, has a Metropolitan Lounge, a kind of first class lounge for sleeper passengers to wait and board. It includes free snacks and luggage checking (in case you want to leave luggage and go for a walk, see sights, etc--though taking the Cardinal you probably won't have much time in Chicago either way, alas.) and TV and newspapers . . . it is often quite crowded just before western trains leave, though. You are entitled to use this lounge whenever you are taking a sleeper either into or out of Chicago or both on a particular day (so if you came in coach instead of sleeper from Cincinnati but were leaving the same day on a sleeper on the Zephyr or EB, you would be entitled to use it). Look for signs or ask personnel etc where it is--it's kind of behing the Hertz rental desk.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Having just completed a phone conversation with Mr. PullmanCo (who I do know face-to-face), I will defer to his thoughts regarding this Bedroom v. Roomette a deux matter.
I have met the real-life "E.M. Frimbo" aka Rogers E.M. Whittaker first in the Obs-Lounge of the PRR Broadway Limited, then later aboard the Amtrak varietal of such. In fact he was in my home where the host of a railfan radio show (a forerunner to Let's Talk Trains) that aired on a low-power FM station (X-mtr 25 miles away in Northbrook; "touch and go if I could receive it) interviewed him. I even got on-air credit for providing the 'studio".
Yes Virginia, I too was once a railfan.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Methinks you are still a railfan, GBN, albeit somewhat in the closet.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by palmland: Methinks you are still a railfan, GBN, albeit somewhat in the closet.
And even if you are not still a railfan, you still kind of like those of us who are when we quit foaming long enough to offer some intelligent and well-reasoned conversation.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
GBN is STILL a railfan . . . else why does he frequent the rail forums? Or take the occasional joyride? It's just the intensity of his railfannery that has changed.
Posted by HopefulRailUser (Member # 4513) on :
Sojourner, your discussion of larger luggage in the Viewliner leads me to ask about my upcoming trip on the LSL. We do have a bedroom booked. We will have one larger suitcase and are going CHI to BOS. Must I check this bag? No place to put it?
By the way, I am using several of the hotels you recommended. Can't wait for this trip.
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
Welcome to overnight passenger rail travel.
Let's define some terms:
VIEWLINER: A single level sleeping car, used generally East of the Mississippi. Your train to Chicago will use this sleeper.
SUPERLINER: A bi-level sleeping car, used Nationwide, but it's the only car you see west of the Mississippi.
Roomette: An ~18 sq ft accommodation. Lower berth is always 28 inches wide. The upper berth on a VIEWLINER is 28" wide. The upper berth on a SUPERLINER is 24" wide (narrower than a backpacking mattress!)
The height, floor to ceiling of a VIEWLINER is ~8 1/2 feet. The height, floor to ceiling, of a SUPERLINER is about 6'10".
On a VIEWLINER, the upper berth passenger has windows. On a SUPERLINER, only the lower berth passenger has windows.
IF you are in any way claustrophobic, then a SUPERLINER upper berth is not for you. Short version: The space is about the size of a coffin or a Navy submarine sailor's berth.
I am with GBN: Pay the extra money on the Zephyr and the Builder (your proposed trains West of Chicago, get a Deluxe Bedroom (42 sq ft, private facilities, worth the luchre!).
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
Oh, and GBN is very much a fan, but he's not a foamer anymore Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
As one who usually has to get up, in the middle of the night, to visit the bathroom, I have often wondered if there is a reason why Amtrak did not put a commode and sink in the Superliner roomettes?
Trying to negotiate those stairs, at 3 AM, down to the toilets, below, felt like Orpheus descending into the Underworld.
Richard
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
Possibly Amtrak realized that putting a commode and sink into a Superliner roomette would pose the same problem that the old single-level roomettes of yore did: for the passenger to get at the commode, the bed had to be raised back into the wall. Not so much of a problem if you have the plumbing of a 20-year-old, but for geezers . . . !
Posted by train lady (Member # 3920) on :
there is a bathroom on the upper level and it is bigger than the ones down stairs.Vicki the size of the suitcase determines if you have enough room for it. I never had a problem with a 24 in soft side. You just have to be creative.
Posted by sojourner (Member # 3134) on :
Vicki, the four times I had bedrooms (as opposed to roomettes) we never had trouble with TWO suitcases there--we put them over near where the chair sometimes goes. But as Train Lady says, it does depend on the size. In general, I'd go for 25" absolute maximum; if the suitcase you were planning on taking is bigger than that, I'd recommend you each take your own suitcase rather than go for a single big one, which you would find it a drag getting around on the NEC trains, not to mention stations and all sorts of other places.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Volks, when George Mortimer's descendants designed the Roomette during the '30's and first placed such in revenue service during 1937 (I'm prepared to be corrected on that point) with roundly an 18sq ft platform, all they had in mind was a single person accommodation. While I think such was a wise decision, it was Amtrak that chose to make such with two beds - no doubt to emulate the Budd Slumbercoach marketed to the railroads that was simply and blatantly an 'econosnooze'.
Now let's compare the "hotel on wheels' with the hotel on land. Circa 1937, even leading hotels in major cities had an array of rooms that were often described as "broom closets". Such had maybe a 40sq ft footprint ("WC" was down the hall) and keeping that a "twin" bed is about 24', there was not too much room for much else. I stayed in a few of those back in my later '50's early 60's traveling days; "not no moe".
Today when the average hotel room at a mid-level brand such as Marriott Courtyard is likely 200sq ft (and the 'bath" simply presumed), no wonder parties of two that have booked a Roomette are known to say "oh my God'. How do you think such "went down' on some folk (very nice) I once met on an AT journey (about #12 I would guess - Feb 01), he a cardiologist, she an RN. The train was sold, and so far as they were concerned, their Bennie S-Class had a better night of it.
Again I reiterate my earlier position. The Amtrak Roomette is a single person accommodation that has two beds. It is my normal accommodation when traveling solo (claustrophobia has never been an issue so I use the Upper bunk, and the lower area is my 'dressing room' - I am almost 70 but able bodied and with no real body weight "issues"). The second bunk is for a small child travelling with an adult, two adolescents whose family has a Bedroom elsewhere on the train, or two adults, preferably young adults, that have been properly briefed that they are essentially booking an "indoor camping' accommodation. Such is simply unacceptable to me, I have my creature comforts at home so when traveling why should I give them up?
But to Mr. and Mrs. Rookie, 'we report, you decide".
Posted by Mike Smith (Member # 447) on :
It has been a while since I broke out my picture of my 25" Samsonite luggage, especially designed to fit in a roomette. Here it is, in it's place in a roomette I traveled in:
Posted by buckeye59 (Member # 15995) on :
More excellent advice everyone. I once again say thank you. After digesting all of your tips and a disscusion with the missus here's the new plan. We will take the Empire Builder west and get off at West Glacier. (This will break up the trip enough so we feel we can handle a seat in coach instead of a roomette.) My wife really wants to spend a couple of days there. Then proceed to Portland and after a week of exploring we will fly back to cincy. Has anyone here taken the red car bus tour on the going to the sun highway? Does it only pick up at the lodges in the park? Let me add that this is a very frendly and helpful forum. Thanks to everyone who has helped so far.
Posted by Mike Smith (Member # 447) on :
Plan "B". After you are on the train, ask the conductor if there are any rooms/roomettes available. You can get one for a nice discount if there are any available on your train.
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
West Glacier does not have checked baggage. If this is a concern, Whitefish is only about 25 miles further with car rentals right in the beautiful station. It is also a delightful town.
West Glacier is perfect for being closest to the parks major attractions. There is a shuttle from Amtrak to the Lodges in the park. If you are not renting a car, there are walking and bike paths into the park.
If your trip is in fall, keep in mind the buses quit running about mid-Sept. (snow). The Going-to-the Sun Highway should not be missed. I think your plan is a good one. If there is one place in the west to spend 2 days off the train, Glacier is arguably the best. As Mr. Kisor once said on this forum, "There is nothing like Glacier. Nothing."
In my younger days I found nothing wrong with long distance in coach, even preferred it sometimes. It made me feel more like part of a group adventure. My kids liked it more than bedrooms. Some folks even crash overnight on the Sightseer Lounge floor to stretch out.
Coming from the east, dawn on the vast Dakota plains is a unique experience. Some love it. There is just not much dramatic change for the whole day until Cut Bank. Plenty of time to explore the train.
Oh, and when you leave the St. Paul depot, wave to the south about a mile out. I'm just 2 blocks away.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
If you're planning to ride the red "jammer" buses, better get your reservations in NOW. They sell out fast, early in the year.
The web site will give you a list of all the stops. They do stop at all the lodges.
Posted by sojourner (Member # 3134) on :
When are you planning to go in autumn? I have never been to Glacier Park but I gather it has a very short season for weather reasons. Check with the red jammer folks about when to come.
Note too that if you go in summer, you will see more of the train route.
Have you given up on the Zephyr? that is too bad; the train ride is quite gorgeous, though as noted here, westbound is best for that.
Posted by buckeye59 (Member # 15995) on :
I hate to admit it but I have no idea what you mean by "the station does not have checked baggage"
Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
Buckeye: You asked if the red jammer bus only picks up at lodges. If will pick you up, on the west side of the park, at the Apgar Tourist Center. On the east side, it will pick up at the St. Mary KOA. Beyond that, yes, you can get a red bus at most of the major lodges. We did it last summer (leaving Apgar). Be sure and take along a jacket as it can be cold, on the bus, even in the midst of summer.
Richard
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
buckeye59 -
A station with no Checked Baggage is a station where there is only a caretaker/custodian to open the station up at train time. At these stations there are no tickets sold and you cannot check any luggage to that station and will have to carry everything you're taking onboard with you.
TwinStar's suggestion is that if you will have so much luggage that you wish to check it in the baggage car, you may want to stay on the train for another 25 miles beyond West Glacier to the station in Whitefish.
If you are looking at detraining in West Glacier, you may want to look into lodging at the Belton Chalet Inn which is just across US Highway 2 from the train station.
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
Checked baggage is like the airlines but free. You check it in at the baggage counter in the station and they give you claim slips. That means you don't have to carry it on and off the train with you. It is transported in the baggage car. You don't have to deal with it until you get off, and Amtrak will check it through to your eventual destination even if you change trains.
There is plenty of room in the Superliner lower level baggage area for large bags, but it is not secure and you have to lug it on and off. Checked baggage is mostly a convenience and it is free. You are allowed 3 large checked bags per person.
But only major stations actually have staff to load and unload the baggage car. So you can check bags through from Cincinnati to Whitefish and not even have to deal with it in Chicago. But checked bags are not handled at West Glacier so you are responsible for getting all your luggage on and off the train. If you don't have a lot of luggage all this is irrelevant.
Stations with checked baggage are shown on the timetable with a tiny suitcase symbol.
Posted by Mike Smith (Member # 447) on :
If you travel coach, there is a considerable amount of space above your seats for luggage.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Mr. Buckeye, I am disappointed to learn that you have now chosen to travel Coach rather than even a double occupancy Roomette. While it is noted that I had suggested a Bedroom for two passengers (and respect that others did not wholly concur with such), I trust that it is also noted that once you stated there were budgetary constraints, I was silent.
From your handle, I would presume you are 52 years of age, which I think is still to the low side of the median age of the regulars here. I would think that Coach travel would result in more discomfort than one would wish for a discretionary trip - especially since a Sleeping accommodation was "on the table'.
On-board Sleeping car sales, as Mr. Smith has suggested, are a 'hit or miss". While at one time, October represented a "shoulder' travel season (kids back in school, time to start thinking about the Holidays - especially now that Halloween has become the "fourth' of such), those shoulders have been leveled out for all transportation and especially Amtrak Sleeping car, which enjoys occupancy rates through the year that any hotelier would be happy to have (a likely reason why 'they cost so darned much').
While nothing sinks to the level of scheduled Greyhound bus service, Amtrak Coach, I'm sorry, is not too many rungs above it. You will meet, and have no escape from, some "colorful characters"; but then if that is part of an adventure, then I guess I should say "go for it'. All I know is I'm not about to join you.
But now that Coach is "on the table', here is a topic that may be of interest;
Finally, I've heard the "topper" of Greyhound stories (from a Parole Officer who is the daughter of a friend):
This "down and out' guy (he did some time), his "wayward" girlfriend, and their four month old child, as well as a cat, and a.......stand by.........boa constrictor, were traveling from "undisclosed" Upstate NY location to Chicago (who knows whether within or without the terms of the parole). Well the child was "not exactly; seen but not heard' and the cat got loose. The driver warned them and said they could be 'put off' for carrying an animal (Greyhound also has a no animals policy). Fortunately, Mr. Boa stayed put.
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
Vicki -- my wife and I have traveled in both Superliner and Viewliner bedrooms with 2 fairly good-sized suitcases + a couple smaller bags -- we store them in the upper bunk of both accomodations, and we share the bottom bunk for sleeping. In roomettes, or in bedrooms if we each want our own bunk, we find "creative" ways to stash them on the floor. Of course, in the Superliner sleepers, there ARE the downstairs luggage racks you can use.....
Posted by HopefulRailUser (Member # 4513) on :
Thanks Rich and ladies. This will be a seven week trip but I am working on the idea of one suitcase and two carryon type bags. I am quite used to storing my bag on the lower level of the Superliner and have never had a problem there. As for the Viewliner,I may check the bag to BOS. I may ask advice in the CUS lounge.I have never seen the Viewliner bedroom. Can I assume it is similar to the ones on the Superliner?
Posted by Ocala Mike (Member # 4657) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman:
From your handle, I would presume you are 52 years of age.
You're probably right, Gil. I was thinking, however, that maybe he said "Goodbye, Columbus" in 1959, which would make him a little older than us. Another possibility is that he's related to #59 on one of their athletic teams.
Anyway, I hope he and his wife have a great trip.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
Class of 59 perhaps......
But that would put the OP at an age where overnight in coach would be a surprising choice.
Posted by buckeye59 (Member # 15995) on :
Yep I'm 52, at least I will be in 11 days. I tend to agree with this last batch of advice and my thinking this weekend was starting to turn back to getting a roomette. Extra $500.00 or not. But we're still going to stop at Whitefish. By the way, does anyone think we're foolish for taking such a long trip for our first train trip?
Posted by train lady (Member # 3920) on :
Vicki I sent you apost re lugggage but it didn't come through so if you get it two times you will understand. On all of our trips I have used 2 22 inch soft side bags and never had any problem. I also take a small tote bag for a water botle,snacks,book etc. In a bedroom all our luggage fit very nicely on the long sofa at night and on the chair,under the chair or in the floor at night. Never have used the down stair racks. A roomette does take some creativity but it can be done and in the comfortable range. We always divide up the clothing between our bags so if one is lost or delayed we still have what we need. BTW one bag is sent on to our final destiination and the other stays with us so that makes 2 to go and 2 to stay.If you don't already be sure to put a few extra hangers in your bag because there are never enough in the room and if you can hang some clothes up at night it will give you more room.
Posted by train lady (Member # 3920) on :
Buckeye, I don't think it is foolish to take a long trip IF you relax and enjoy new things and expect the unexpected. Travel can and shold be interesting, fun and an adventure. Just roll with the punches!!
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
As a compromise, you do not have to choose between coach and roomette for your entire trip. You could do part in coach and part in roomette, with CHI and Whitefish being obvious switchover points.
Playing with options on the Amtrak website can sometimes reduce your total cost. For instance, on my last 2 trips I changed from roomette to coach at La Junta and Denver, doing nights in roomettes and days in coach in both directions. It saved me about $100 each trip and I only had to pay for one meal.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
TwinStar, that's interesting. How were you able to do the ticketing in order to ride part of the way in sleeper and part in coach? Did you have to do separate tickets, or were you able to persuade an Amtrak ticket agent to apply the sleeper charge only to the distance (or time) the sleeper was occupied? I don't quite see how you can do this online, but maybe I'm missing something.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
quote:Originally posted by buckeye59: By the way, does anyone think we're foolish for taking such a long trip for our first train trip?
My reaction to the first itinerary set forth would have been yes, however, you have greatly reduced the amount of rail travel planned - and I'm pleased you are now back to a Roomette.
If the journey becomes a descent into hades, you could always say "that's all folks" at Whitefish and simply drive the auto you plan to rent onward to Seattle then fly home to KCVG, KCMH, or wherever.
But I would hope that even if The Cardinal, your CIN-CHI train is a disappointment, at least give The Builder CHI-WFH a try. The Builder is often called "America's train" and many who have ridden it (I haven't ridden the Amtrak varietal, but have the railroad) hold it is one of Amtrak's 'best foot forward'. You will find at Whitefish and other stations along the route, that train time represents "a community event" of sorts.
Finally regarding gratuities, we have had much material posted here in the past regarding nature and scope of such. The Search feature will lead you to the material.
Posted by Railroad Bob (Member # 3508) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: I have met the real-life "E.M. Frimbo" aka Rogers E.M. Whittaker first in the Obs-Lounge of the PRR Broadway Limited, then later aboard the Amtrak varietal of such. In fact he was in my home where the host of a railfan radio show (a forerunner to Let's Talk Trains) that aired on a low-power FM station (X-mtr 25 miles away in Northbrook; "touch and go if I could receive it) interviewed him. I even got on-air credit for providing the 'studio".
Thank you GBN for telling us this interesting story- in the "railfan universe" EM Frimbo is one of the brightest stars; I'd put him up there with David Morgan of Trains magazine, etc. A consummate gentleman who really "got" what passenger train travel was/is all about...plus those guys could WRITE!
But back to the original post and Mr. Buckeye's "first" train trip-- hope it goes well. I don't remember my first trip, but my mother told me about it-- I was six (months) old. In my Mom's arms aboard the ATSF's El Capitan from LAX-CHI. The "courier nurse" said I was a good baby and never cried a bit all the way. Like that line in the famous song CONO:
"Mothers with their babes asleep, rockin' to the gentle beat- and the rhythm of the rails is all they hear." Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
Henry, it was separate tickets. Last winter La Plata to La Junta in roomette followed by coach to Flagstaff ($399) was cheaper than roomette the whole way ($466). But if I switched in ABQ it would have cost more than all roomette ($496). Where you choose to change makes a big difference. I always choose stations with time enough to move my stuff outside the train and there is often a wait to board. I bought lunch and skipped dinner.
Last summer roomette from Osceola to Denver followed by coach to Glenwood Springs was considerably cheaper than roomette all the way (which was sold out west of DEN anyway). The reverse was also true. CHI-DEN has an extra sleeper which might explain the lower price.
All you need is a lot of patience researching the Amtrak res page and a little spreadsheet. I also love doing it. Don't tell Amtrak.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
TSR - saw this on another site and seems to be pretty useful for finding the lowest price of a room within a 30 day range. Of course only good if your dates are flexible. Appears to save a bunch of separate inquiries into Amtrak.com: Amsnag Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
Palmland, the Amsnag link seems broken.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
thanks, Henry - fixed it
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
I came across this "favorable' video tour of the Coast Starlight, in which the 'Guide" notes that a Roomette is fine for two persons:
However, be it noted this young woman is "in shape' and so would I presume is her referenced companion.
I still hold that Amtrak should issue a "caveat" whenever a Roomette is sold for two persons. I'll accept that two young people of normal size and who want to save a $$$ will "do OK", but how about someone "seventysomething'- especially a "seventysomething' with any kind of disability starting with excessive "girth'?
The bad thing I can recall from an Auto Train trip in the past was meeting a Physician and his Nurse wife; they were sold a Roomette and were not even made aware that there were Bedrooms available (there weren't on-board when they tried to upgrade).
Somehow, I think their Bennie had the better night of it.
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