While admittedly an exaggeration on my part, it seems as if both auto and air travel is portrayed here as some kind of "low impact assault course', and that expansion of rail service - especially Long Distance rail, will usher forth "a new Golden Age of travel", this article appearing in Friday's Wall Street Journal reports that there are devotees of air travel as it exists today;
TOKYO”Because of a typo, Gino Bertuccio is paying about $33,500 to fly from here to Hong Kong next week. But he isn't complaining. "The feeling is incredible," says Mr. Bertuccio, a 48-year-old Miami businessman.
Why is he so happy? Mr. Bertuccio, through an online auction, landed a seat on the debut commercial flight of Boeing Co.'s long-awaited 787 Dreamliner, the world's first jet made largely of plastic reinforced by carbon fiber, rather than aluminum.
The All Nippon Airways charter flight has kicked off a scramble by a unique group of fliers who love nothing more than settling into a brand-new plane for its maiden voyage.
Their patron saint: Thomas Lee, a 59-year-old California executive who is believed to be the only person to score a seat on the first commercial flight of Boeing's 747 in 1970; Airbus's giant A380, the first all double-decker jetliner, in 2007; and the Dreamliner. His Dreamliner trip will be his third voyage on a new jet.....Norihiko Mizota, a 46-year-old aviation devotee who spends weekends photographing planes in Japan, also struck out. So he plans to play hooky from his day job as a technology consultant and shoot pictures of the Dreamliner taking off from Narita airport next week. "It's rare to see an airplane from a Japanese carrier make a world debut," he said.
Finally, while both United/Continental and Delta have B-787 (corrected) aircraft on order, it's "gonna be awhile till they get 'em" - and then they will likely be placed on overseas routes.
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
I'm quite certain that neither United or Continental have the A-380 on order. I doubt that Delta does, either. Continental does have the Boeing 787 on order and the first aircraft has left the assembly building and is now in the paint hangar. It will, sadly, say United on it but will be delivered to Continental. The original plan was for it to be used to fly from Houston to Auckland and, possibly Houston to Lagos. Continental will start flying the latter mid-November with a 777.
Frank in foggy and cool SBA
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Stand corrected; B-787 vice A-380. Originating posting changed to reflect what I can assure this Forum was my intent.
It is interesting to learn that UCH's 787 aircraft are quite far along in production and that Frank's carrier will have them far sooner than I would have expected.
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
Delta probably also has 787's on order from the original Northwest order. I think they moved back their delivery positions, though.
Frank in still foggy and cool SBA
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
So it would appear that the CO side of UCH will be the first US Flag carrier to fly the 787.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
I can understand how there are 'airfans'. Any form of travel has a certain allure, at least for me. That assumes you can get past the aggravating parts, be it airport security, surly train crews, or even the 'herding' on cruise ships.
I believe former Trains magazine David Morgan posted an article in Kalmbach's short lived Airliner International magazine in the 70's and I think someone also had a bus magazine. Unfortunately these days it's just a little harder to find the romance of travel - unless you want to pay big bucks for it. Guess that's what you mean by the new ' Golden Age of Travel'.
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
quote:Originally posted by sbalax: Continental does have the Boeing 787 on order and the first aircraft has left the assembly building and is now in the paint hangar.
It's out of the hangar now and looking pretty sharp. There was a "spy" photo posted the other day on an airplane group that I belong to.
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
Smitty--
Can you send me a link to that? There have been a couple of pictures and a video on the employee website during the construction process but nothing lately.
Mr. Norman--
Yep. Continental was the North American launch customer. I seem to recall that Northwest jumped the line somehow but that order has been put back by Delta.
The first aircraft will have a mix of BusinessFirst (the class of service and name will survive for now), Economy Plus (Coming over from United) and Economy. I had the numbers at some point but can't find them right now.
Frank in sunny but still cool SBA
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
There is a surprisingly large communtiy of bus enthusiasts as well....... folks who seek out and restore antique vehicles trading tips and suggestions on where to find rare parts to make them just so.
The 1957 Greyhound Scenicruiser is a particularly popular model.
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
quote:Originally posted by sbalax: Smitty--
Can you send me a link to that? There have been a couple of pictures and a video on the employee website during the construction process but nothing lately.
I have run into ferry fans, too. Eccentricity takes many forms.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Mark me as eccentric - never seen a ferry I wouldn't go out of my way to take. The ferries at Seattle and Bellingham,WA, Skagway,AK, and Port Kent,NY are a few that come to mind that are in walking distance of a train station. Guess Staten Island counts too. Are there others?
Posted by Vincent206 (Member # 15447) on :
Living here in Boeingville, I've been watching the progress of the 787 program for (too) many years. Once the airplane is in service I'll be looking for a chance to take a trip on one of those birds. The carbon fiber construction technology is new and the design of the plane's body is different from the aluminum based planes. There is a noticeable sleekness and elegance to the 787 body and wings that will distinguish it from previous generations of aircraft.
I also saw the new and expanded 747-8 land while I was waiting at a stoplight near Boeing Field. It's not as big as a 380, but it's a huge plane.
Posted by Vincent206 (Member # 15447) on :
quote: Mark me as eccentric - never seen a ferry I wouldn't go out of my way to take.
Then on your next trip to the Pacific Northwest, you might consider a trip on the Martha S. You won't be able to walk from the nearest train station--it's about 80 miles from Spokane or Ephrata--but it is one of the more unique ferry trips in you can take in WA state. For hardcore rail/ferry fans, there is also the Eastern Washington Gateway RR. The EWGRR is a state-owned rail line that primarily serves the wheat country between Coulee City and Cheney WA, just south of the Keller Ferry.
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
Vincent--
I really like what I've seen so far of the 747-8. I expect that Boeing will eventually extend the upper deck even further back. My recent flight HNL-LAX on a 737-800 reminded me of how much I miss the 747's and DC10's that I used to travel on to and from the Islands!
Frank in foggy and cool SBA
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Thanks Vincent, we'll put it on our list. There aren't too many ferry river crossings still around, but it certainly makes you slow down and appreciate all that's going on around you. A recent crossing of the James river on a very small ferry was very enjoyable. An even shorter one is across the St. Johns river near Jacksonville, FL. Usually you can spot a nuclear aircraft carrier looming not far away that is docked at the Mayport Naval Base.
Posted by Railroad Bob (Member # 3508) on :
Little thread creep, but yes, that '57 Greyhound Scenicruiser with the "split-level" (?) was a spectacular rig. Along with its smartly uniformed professional driver with those rows of service/safe driving award pins on his lapel...
Still, I would have rather gone through Glenwood Canyon in a Vista Dome on the DRG and W if I was traveling from Denver to SLC in those days...
Now back to airplanes; anyone seen the new TV show about the Pan Am flight attendants, oops, I mean "stewardesses?" The show is rather interesting due to its historical perspective and great footages of the non noise-abated early 707s.
Those babies made some kind of a roar on takeoff, eh?
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
Who ever thought that we would one day be flying oceanic long-haul routes in a Boeing 737? Certainly not me! My all time favorite aircraft is the United Airlines DC-10. I used to love watching that plane arrive into OGG from SFO. You could watch it do the approach and make the big, long circle into the airport. Then when it would pull up to the gate, the nose would come right at you if you stood at the window. That's when you really got to appreciate what a "widebody" airplane is. I also remember the UAL flight attendants wearing Hawaiian garb and handing out mai tais.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Yes, I have watched the TV series "Pan Am". In the episode relating to travel to Rangoon (what's it called nowadays?) and Jakarta, the producers certainly show their ignorance of the seniority system with references to how the "Captain' managed to override many senior First Officers (some script blubbering about "need some young blood"). However, if one wants to read a narrative of how a seniority system was usurped by an arbitration award, read applicable chapters of Gandt that I cited elsewhere at the Forum with regards to the merger of the Pan Am and National rosters.
However, during 1963, Pan Am was still flying high - the Skygods were not about to contemplate a merger with any domestic "cracker" airline at that time.
But to one lacking knowledge of air transport industry affairs (I really don't much outside of Labor Relations - and that is only because the Railway Labor Ace covers airlines as well), I guess the production is "entertainment".
But to give the producers credit for something, I understand that the approach to VHHH, Hong Kong Kai-Tak (now closed), was quite challenging and involved a 45dg Right turn while on 'Final' and doing so with IAS of about 145Kt.
Finally regarding Mr. Smith's comment with respect to B-737 varietals, a few years ago, I flew KORD-KSNA - and that is what United had assigned for that afternoon flight. All I could think 'can this thing hold enough gas for a non-stop?'
Posted by train lady (Member # 3920) on :
Palmland there is a ferry from BC to anacordis (sp?) Washington, one from Stjohn N. B. to Digby Nova Scotia and one across the James near Jamestown . I can't remember off the top of my head the exact spot. There are several on the outer banks of NC and one from Nova Scotia to PEI There is one across Picton Harbor that is quite nice. I know we used a few more but would have to check my travel logue to pin point them.
Posted by Ocala Mike (Member # 4657) on :
My three favorite airline trips of all time (NOT!):
1. NY-Washington shuttle on an Eastern Airlines Constellation in a blinding snowstorm circa 1960 or 1961. We landed at Friendship (now BWI) because Washington National was shut down.
2. NY-Albany on a Mohawk Airlines Convair 240 or 440 circa 1962 or 1963, watching the loose bolts rattle around the nacelles, wondering if the engines were going to fall off (they didn't).
3. Chicago O'Hare to Cedar Rapids, IA in Sept., 1967 on a United Airlines DC-6(B?) wondering if we were ever going to be able to land during a raging thunderstorm to complete the last leg of my return trip from a tour in Korea (we made it).
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Thanks for the ferry suggestions, Trainlady. A few we've tried but the others are something to look forward to!
As to airplanes, as planes become bigger and presumably better they're not quite as interesting, especially if in the center seat. But a transatlantic flight in a 747 business class courtesy of BA was outstanding. Now if all flights were like that, good by Amtrak.
But, aside from that trip, my better airplane trips were in my college days when you could travel on a half fare student rate. And, if coach was full, they put you in 1st.
My last prop flight (commuter flights don't count) was a DC-7 substituting for the regularly assigned jet on an American Washington to Memphis flight c. 1965/6. The take off and landing seemed so gentle compared to jets. The food, leg room, and service were great. Drinks before we took off (even in coach) and a steak dinner. The windows were large with curtains if I remember correctly.
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
Mr. Norman--
Thanks for the link to the two videos. They brought back some great memories of Kai Tak and "the Checkerboard". It was, even under perfect conditions, always a thrill ride landing there. The terminal itself was a disaster. A trip to/through Chek Lap Kok (the "new" HKG) is on my bucket list.
A cruise friend who is a retired PanAm/United F/A has be sending me critiques of the show. Most recently she commented that those "girls" would have been doing San Juan turns at that stage in their careers, the pilots were NEVER that young -- most were WWII or Korean War vets -- and hats, gloves and "Street Jackets" were NEVER worn for service and were removed and stowed as soon as the cabin door was shut.
The mockups they are using for the cabin interiors are far more spacious than the real thing. Getting three people in the forward galley on a 707 would be akin to stuffing a telephone booth. Am I dating myself??? (Vicki -- This does NOT require an answer!)
It's still sort of a fun show to watch.
Frank in overcast (again) and cool SBA
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
P.S.
The current issue of National Geographic Traveler has an article about "the perfect airport". They cite great things about a number of airports that could be put together to make the dream airport. For transportation they mention both Narita and Chek Lap Kok. Train service is fast and relatively inexpensive. You can check in and check your bags in town and not see them again until you arrive at your destination.
Frank in still overcast and cool SBA
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
As long as we're talking about memorable flights:
Circa 1968: Miami to Marathon in the Keys on a Cape Air (I think) DC-3, sitting in the last row, and landing in a stiff and gusty crosswind. The pilot executed a perfect wing-low approach and flare, then kicked the nose the rest of the way with a tromp on the rudder pedal, touching down with a small thunk. I really felt that last maneuver. Those old DC-3s could wag their tails.
Circa 1984-5: JFK to De Gaulle in an Air France 747 first class, as a press guest of the airline. Since then I have never eaten so well, or partaken of such classic wines. (However, the head flight attendant, taking note of my deafness, asked if I would like to be met at the door by a wheelchair. I never quite figured that one out.)
Posted by Vincent206 (Member # 15447) on :
I grew up near the Boeing plant that manufactured the 707 and I clearly remember how loud and smokey those planes were. When a 707 flew over the house all conversation would stop, we'd watch the windows rattle and hope that there wouldn't be a sonic boom.
One legendary moment in Seattle history is the 1955 barrel roll by a 707 prototype over Lake Washington during Seafair. (There's a video inside the link).
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
Well, we might as well continue on this aviation theme.
This just in from today's United Daily, the employee newsletter. The comments are about Jeff Smisek's meeting with employees yesterday in LA.
Jeff meets with LAX co-workers Jeff met with more than 300 co-workers at the LAX Airport Marriott Monday. He talked about our progress integrating our two airlines, training on SHARES, our combined passenger service system (PSS), and new products and services for our customers. He also spoke about the excitement surrounding the delivery of our first Boeing 787 aircraft in 2012: “It will be a great airplane,” Jeff said. “We will be the first North American airline to have the Dreamliner, three years in advance of any of our U.S. competitors. This will give us a spectacular product and a lot of flexibility with our fleet in the coming years.” Jeff’s next CEO Exchange is Tuesday, Nov. 8, at the Crowne Plaza Denver International Airport Hotel.
Six 787's are scheduled to be delivered to UHC in 2012.
Frank in still dark and cool SBA
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
My favorite flight was Rapid City to Minneapolis with stops in Pierre and Sioux Falls. Now if they had stopped in every town in between I would have been really happy. And if only the windows would open. I guess I'm just not the airplane type.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
quote:Originally posted by Henry Kisor: As long as we're talking about memorable flights:
Circa 1968: Miami to Marathon in the Keys on a Cape Air (I think) DC-3, sitting in the last row, and landing in a stiff and gusty crosswind. The pilot executed a perfect wing-low approach and flare, then kicked the nose the rest of the way with a tromp on the rudder pedal, touching down with a small thunk. I really felt that last maneuver. Those old DC-3s could wag their tails.
Fast forward to 2009. Driving back from my son's wedding in Key West, we passed the Marathon airport. Sitting there looking very spiffy was a DC-3 painted for Ozark airlines. Have no idea what it was all about but almost drove off the road. Went back to take a few photos.
My first flight was a grandmother treat in a Ozark Airlines DC-3 for the 40 miles from Clarksville to Nashville Berry Field in the mid 50's. Sure beat the long drive on a very hilly US 41A.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
That was probably the DC-3 belonging to the Prairie Air Museum in Bloomington, Ill. Theirs was restored to Ozark colors.
Back in 2009 Oshkosh hosted at least six and maybe seven DC-3s and C-47s. Quite a sight.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by sbalax: P.S.
The current issue of National Geographic Traveler has an article about "the perfect airport". They cite great things about a number of airports that could be put together to make the dream airport. For transportation they mention both Narita and Chek Lap Kok. Train service is fast and relatively inexpensive. You can check in and check your bags in town and not see them again until you arrive at your destination.
Frank in still overcast and cool SBA
I don't know about the 'perfect airport' but one particularly pleasant one is the Tri-Cities airport between Bristol and Johnson City (and Kingsport too), Tennessee.
Long-term parking is as close as 75 yards from the door, the small main terminal has high ceilings and lot's of windows letting in natural light, and when meeting incoming passengers there is even a second level observation deck where you can spot the incoming planes and follow their progress to the runway.
You just don't see that kind of thing most places anymore.
Posted by Railroad Bob (Member # 3508) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: All I could think 'can this thing hold enough gas for a non-stop?'
I have one personal "low fuel" experience during a flight from LAX to the old Beijing National 'port (the one Nixon flew to for the historic meetings with Chairman Mao.) It was my 2nd China trip in 1997. Aircraft was a Lockheed wide; I think it was called an L-1011? (I do not have good "plane knowledge" like many here.) Carrier was China Eastern. Aircraft seemed to be struggling as it worked north and west through the West Coast East Asia vectors...by Anchorage the pilot set her into some lazy circles above the Denali range above Anchorage, AK.
Everyone wondered what was up as we watched the razor-sharp escarpments of the mountains below. He set the plane down gently and finally told us we "needed more fuel" for the run to Beijing, due to strong headwinds between LAX and Alaska. We stayed on the ground for about 45 minutes. Couldn't get off, of course. Then took off and continued without incident to Beijing. It was an interesting incident and we were all glad we got the "extra fuel."
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
quote:Originally posted by Railroad Bob: Aircraft was a Lockheed wide; I think it was called an L-1011?
Note: the link to the Pacific Southwest page was with intent to show a carrier (acquired by USAir only to be "broken up") that probably was the forerunner to what has become, favorable and otherwise, of the air transport industry today.
From one for whom PSA is a "been there done that", they were just a ride - a reliable ride - but just a ride.
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
Mr. Norman--
As someone who flew PSA many, many, many times I think you must have been asleep. It was FAR more than "just a ride".
My first airline flight EVER was on a PSA DC4 from SFO to BUR. We encountered turbulence over the Tehachapis and, being unpressurized, lots of people got sick. Not this 12 year old, though. But I did vow I would never fly again and would much prefer the Coast or San Joaquin Daylight for our annual trip to San Francisco.
In later years I flew on the Electra and 727-100 and 200. Fares were usually in the $11.00 to $16.00 range each way. I never made it onto the L1011.
PSA, many said, stood for "Poor Sailors' Airline" because of the traffic between San Diego, Los Angeles and San Francisco.
And then there were the Stewardesses in hot pants and boots...
Bob--
I'm betting that was an MD11 not an L1011. The former was an evolution of the DC10 and the latter Lockheed's competition to the DC10 that never really made it.
Frank in sunny and warm SBA
Posted by TBlack (Member # 181) on :
GBN, Those hostess outfits didn't do anything for you?
And in the link, there's mention of a lower lounge.I don't remember ever seeing one of those.
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
Tom--
It was there but I believe there was a restriction on it being occupied during take off or landing. It was basically the space used by some carriers (TWA comes to mind) as galley space with two elevators -- one for food and one for crew.
Frank in still sunny and warm SBA
Posted by HopefulRailUser (Member # 4513) on :
This non-air fan is off to try the new style airline tomorrow. Taking Smitty's favorite Virgin America to Fort Lauderdale to connect with our civilized, ocean going form of transportation.
Wish us luck.
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
Bon Voyage to you both! You know I'll be hoping for the occasional report from along the way. Two transatlantics on one cruise is something very special!!
Frank in dark and cool SBA
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Well, as a follow-up to the event that prompted this admittedly off-topic thread, here are videos and narrative of the first All Nippon RJAA (NRT)-PHHH (HKG) revenue 787 flight.
And finally, on another air travel related point; presently Starz, through its Movieplex On-Demand outlet, is offering through Oct 31, several of the "Airports'. Forget the sequels with barrel rolling Concordes and submerged 747's (can't believe James Stewart needed to earn a buck that bad to have a role in that one), but the original 1970 vintage does offer a glimpse of how air travel was (pretty close to real) during the '60's - what with airports with few crowds, courteous personnel, and NO security (with bad results in this flick).
But, alas on the downside, indiscriminate "exhaust" of the "foul fog" - on the ground and in-flight.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Have fun, Vicki! I'm looking forward to hearing how you liked your experience.
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
It says a lot about the spirit of these folks who, even years later, are proud to have been part of a great airline. This feeling isn't limited to PAN AM. There was a recent gathering of Continental folks who had worked at/out of LAX during the "Proud Bird With the Golden Tail" days. Over 800 people showed up for dinner and drinks. It was held, appropriately enough, at The Proud Bird Restaurant with a great view of the south runway.
Frank in sunny, warm and breezy SBA
Posted by HopefulRailUser (Member # 4513) on :
Reporting in - Virgin America was great. My iPhone ear phones worked in the media player so I could see and hear 24 TV stations, music galore and more all the way across country. Bought a sandwich to split with Art for $9, the coke was free.
Great experience for non- flyers like us. Wish they didn't charge $25 per bag. Cambria Suites in FLL is very nice too
See you all when we return in December.
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
Yay! Glad to hear it worked out so well. That stupid $25 bag fee is ridiculous. They didn't always charge that---they're just following all of the others (unfortunately).
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
Southwest still doesn't charge for the first bag and most other airlines waive the bag charge if you have their branded credit card. It's the "Pizza Principle" of pricing. You only pay for what you want.
Glad it went well, Vicki. We have heard good things about Cambria Suites from other cruisers.
Frank in sunny and warm SBA
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Here's an approach that makes the one to former VHHH Rwy 13 look tame - and this is in use every day!!
This is the Canarsie Approach to KJFK Rwy 13L/R vectoring VOR CRS 112.30; a 90dg right turn is involved.
I never had a Cub; my steed was a 1959 C150, one of "The First of the Many" of its ilk.
Don't think I'd ever have asked for a light-gun approach to KJFK. I did and was granted same at KELM (Elmira), KJVL (Janesville), KUGN (Waukegan) and a few others. KNYL (Yuma) at first hesitated but suggested I come in with a C172 as a flight of two. That was hairy; I lost the 172 in ground clutter (a 150's approach speed is a lot slower) and just aimed for the most likely runway. There were Marine C-130s waiting at the threshold for the small fry to clear their playground.
Posted by Ocala Mike (Member # 4657) on :
As long as we're posting airfan videos, here's one of my favorite ones because it overflies two of my old neighborhoods, near Prospect Park in Brooklyn and near Corona in Queens, just before landing. This is the famous "Expressway" approach to Runway 31 at LGA from the cockpit:
It's filmed inside the cockpit of a Finnair MD-11 and at the last second they are told to go around due to traffic on the runway. The reason I like this video so much is because it shows how their training automatically kicks in as they quickly have to change just about everything without any notice. The MD-11 is a huge airplane---it's my second favorite behind the DC-10.
Posted by Railroad Bob (Member # 3508) on :
quote:Originally posted by sbalax: Bob--
I'm betting that was an MD11 not an L1011. The former was an evolution of the DC10 and the latter Lockheed's competition to the DC10 that never really made it.
Frank in sunny and warm SBA
Thanks for the clarification, Frank. I went to the China Eastern Wiki and checked their rosters; they had five or so of these MD11's- all converted to freighters around 2004. Must have been really high-hour rigs; each made countless trips on the LAX to old Shanghai Hongqiao and also old Beijing National. I believe they also may have had some SFO - China routes as well; not a big deal just an observation. Price-wise in the mid 90s I recall paying around $600 for a coach RT! Later that crept up to $7-800; now the China rides will generally set you back a grand or more in pre-purchase coach.
I got a kick out of paying about the same as a domestic long haul RT such as LAX to JFK, and getting to fly over the Great Wall of China in the bargain!
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Quite the video, Mr. Andy Smith.
That sure should lay to rest any notions that an ATP - Air Transport Pilot - is someone who gets paid $200K a year just to ride airplanes that fly themselves.
No doubt this aircrew was just about to complete a nine hour EFHK-KJFK flight, on final, and confronted with one of Mr. Kisor's colleagues lacking his level of competence.
Quite some airmanship; surely lots of well-deserved applause back in the cabins.
Off topic, it always amazes me how aviation is a "mixture" of land and nautical terms. The aircraft has cabins and decks (or a c#*%pit), travels at a speed measured in knots, and dimensions of Fore and Aft but Left or Right, vice Port and Starboard.
Finally, and so long as this rail unrelated topic stands (I honestly expected it would either been locked or killed by now), allow me to reiterate my use of the four letter ICAO codes rather than the more known amongst the public three letter IATA codes. Likely because this is when I was in the Air Force and in communications, ICAO codes were "it" in any AM - Airlift Mission - message I handled. All military airfields have an ICAO - only some have an IATA. Further, some ICAO codes can give you an idea where you are, case in point above: E(Europe)F(Finland)HK(Helsinki). And very lastly, if I recall, wasn't there once on a "where in the world is Matt Lauer" segment of Today in which he rattled off an ICAO code as a hint?
Posted by ehbowen (Member # 4317) on :
quote:Originally posted by Henry Kisor: Don't think I'd ever have asked for a light-gun approach to KJFK. I did and was granted same at KELM (Elmira), KJVL (Janesville), KUGN (Waukegan) and a few others. KNYL (Yuma) at first hesitated but suggested I come in with a C172 as a flight of two. That was hairy; I lost the 172 in ground clutter (a 150's approach speed is a lot slower) and just aimed for the most likely runway. There were Marine C-130s waiting at the threshold for the small fry to clear their playground.
I once asked for a light-gun departure at KHOU; I was ferrying a Super Decathlon with a bad radio to the avionics shop. Not a problem. Phoned the tower, told them I would take off on 12 Right, then turn right and follow Telephone Road until I reached the limits of the Class B airspace.
I really loved that Decathlon. Soloed and passed my private checkride in it. For my final checkride prep with my instructor, we did spins & recovery. Under the hood. At night. Lots of fun!
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
quote:Originally posted by sbalax: Continental does have the Boeing 787 on order and the first aircraft has left the assembly building and is now in the paint hangar. It will, sadly, say United on it but will be delivered to Continental. The original plan was for it to be used to fly from Houston to Auckland and, possibly Houston to Lagos. Continental will start flying the latter mid-November with a 777.
Frank, it appears that your carrier (presume you are now retired) has had a change of heart regarding the first assignment of its 787's. Hope you can access the immediately linked Wall Street Journal article, but if not, here is a pertinent Brief Passage:
The U.S. launch customer, the Continental Airlines unit of United Continental Holdings Inc., plans to fly its new Dreamliners on domestic U.S. routes for six to eight weeks following expected delivery in the second half of next year, before shifting them to international destinations. Five planes out of Continental's 25-plane order—recently reduced from six—are due to arrive in 2012, three years behind schedule.
Dave Lundy, Continental's 787 fleet captain, said the airline will initially fly domestic routes from its hubs in Houston and Newark to familiarize flight and ground staff with the plane, as well as between 50 and 100 hours of nonrevenue international flights.
With my Labor Relations background, I have to ask questions like when the Seniority rosters are merged in whatever manner they are (guys and gals, for heaven's sake, work it out "on the property"; you don't want what some arbitrator imposed upon PanAm/National flight personnel), what will happen for training costs when former United aircrews - Officers and Attendants - decide they can bid on routes 787 aircraft are assigned to. I can see it now; the Senior Continental Officers (not as pronounced with Attendants given no mandatory retirement age) that 'want to fly 787 before they become Kiwis" will leave (not of course because they did something unsafe) and then training costs will simply be incurred in great part for United crews.
Finally, a thought of mine on liveries; while I don't know who was smoking what when United settled on their Battleship Grey, it is now largely gone (practically all my flying is on United - hey; I know my way around KORD Terminal #1; not too much elsewhere). Unfortunately, what I think was likely the most attractive of liveries out there, United's "Blended Blue' will be short lived, but the need to respect that a perfectly viable carrier, i.e. yours, that could potentially be "gobbled up' will live on - even after one Certificate is issued.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
To keep this thread down to railroad-related earth: It seems that pilots in general love trains. too. I read somewhere that a highly decorated British World War II pilot once was given a ride on the footplate of a steam locomotive some time after the war, and declared to all and sundry that it was the greatest experience of his life. (After, of course, getting married and the birth of his children, yada yada.)
Hmm. I became a pilot thanks to having met one on the California Zephyr who invited me to take a ride in his C172, and was utterly hooked.
THERE. The connection with Amtrak has been firmly established, and this thread can continue . . .
In fact, if you look hard enough, *everything* is connected to the railroad one way or another.
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
Mr. Norman--
I'm not the CO employee in this household. That would be my partner with soon to be 41 years of seniority starting on the ramp at SJC and currently an IAH based domestic Flight Attendant. That time also included some time in management in the Flight Kitchen, Inflight and as an Inflight Supervisor on the DC10 and 747.
The "break in" period for the 787 was expected. That's pretty much normal operating procedure with any new aircraft type. The only problem with trying to get a ride on one of these is that the scheduling will be pretty random.
The Continental livery will live on. United planes are slowly being repainted. A good percentage of Continental aircraft now have UNITED on them. That's much easier (and cheaper) to do.
It's hard to believe but the "new" livery is around 20 years old.
The seniority issue will be somewhat easier to handle since the flight attendants and pilots at both subsidiary carriers are represented by the same union -- AFA for flight attendants and ALPA for the pilots.
Frank in sunny but cool SBA
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
quote:Originally posted by sbalax: The seniority issue will be somewhat easier to handle since the flight attendants and pilots at both subsidiary carriers are represented by the same union -- AFA for flight attendants and ALPA for the pilots.
.....but separate General Committees ---- hope not, but "are we Reeaadyy to RUUUUUMMMMMBBBBLLLLLE
But your immediate comment does remind me of an exchange I had at KDEN three years ago with an American female Flight Officer. Riding the subway there, she noted (she was a thirtysomething First Officer) she wasn't sure how much longer she was going to be able to hang on. I said "well can you get on over at Eagle?"..."No way, separate union, separate roster,,,and they don't like us over there"..,.."Isn't it all one company?"..."Yeah, about as far as the planes are painted the same?"....."Well where can you go to fly airplanes for a paycheck?'...."There's a Lithuianian freight carrier that's hiring and I could be a Captain as soon as I qualify on their planes....but my family and my life is in the Dallas area....I'll just stick it out until I'm recalled"...."Good luck Ma'am'..."Thank you".... END
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Sunday's New York Times will have many words about Andy Smith's favourite airloine; Virgin America:
..Travelers pick flights by price and schedule. But if you want to get there as planned, it’s worth paying attention to which type of plane you choose.
A data dive shows different types of planes within airline fleets have varying records for on-time arrivals and cancellations. At some carriers, older planes have more delays. Sometimes it’s brand-new planes that suffer more glitches. More important than age: How each airline flies and fixes particular planes impacts whether you’ll be late or stranded.
Travelers often don’t have an aircraft choice–airlines serve some routes only with regional jets or particular wide-body types. But many busy routes have a variety of aircraft, and passengers can pick planes when booking reservations.
There is Amtrak relevance to this article. There is mention of how Delta has been able to keep their fleet of DC-9 variants airworthy and out of the hangars.
Now that Richard Andersen, former Delta CEO and is now that of Amtrak, can develop maintenance practices as outlined in the article for Amtrak's aging fleet.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
I remember reading some years ago that the new Chief Mechanical Officer didn't think a preventative maintenance program was really necessary as most of the engines at that time were relatively new. Wonder how much he 'saved'.
As to DC-9's, I always enjoyed flying on them and did so regularly in Eastern's waning days, usually on a JAX-ATL hop. I guess to save money the pilot always powered up and used reverse thrust to leave the gate which of course avoided the need for the tug that shoves you out now (and did then on most airlines).
I heard the pilots liked the DC-9's because there was a lot less electronics and they could actively fly them rather than rely so much on instruments. The first time I was aware of the DC-9 was in college in the 60's and I saw one at PHL (Alleghany) next to a TWA Connie.
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
Wow, this thread has a life of it's own!
We fly on Tuesday LAX-ORD (UA757-300 with a CAL cabin crew) and then ORD-FRA (Lufthansa 747-8i in Business Class) and then FRA-FCO (Lufthansa Business Class on an A320). We are especially looking forward to riding the 747-8i since only LH and Korean bought the passenger version. And two that were supposed to go to a now defunct Russian airline but appear destined to become the next Air Force One(s).
All is good. Only train ride recently was Shanghai to Beijing at 350KPH. Smooth, quiet, clean and half an hour early.
Frank in sunny and warm SBA
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
How much do I, a Boeing 747 pilot, love the airplane that I fly? It’s tough, and maybe a little embarrassing, to answer. But as the iconic jet’s eventual retirement draws closer, I am surely not the only 747 fan who’s taking some very long flights down memory lane.
To share with you the jumbo dimensions of my 747 obsession, I could describe my wedding cake (hint: it had wings of marzipan, and four chocolate engines). I could share my Twitter moniker, @markv747. Or I could go farther back, to the day when I, an awkward 14-year-old, stood with my mom and dad atop the Pan Am terminal at John F. Kennedy International Airport, and stared in wonder at the towering tail fins of the 747s all around us, as proud and promising to my wide-opened eyes as masts in a harbor
Posted by Ocala Mike (Member # 4657) on :
Maybe belongs in the "Santa Rosa" thread; this bad boy was used to fight the NorCal wildfires this past week: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fox_xomGgFg Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
In my younger days, I LOVED to fly on a Convair 880.
Posted by Ocala Mike (Member # 4657) on :
Scariest flight - LGA to Albany on a Mohawk Airlines DC-3 going to the races at Saratoga, early 60's. Sat next to a fearless jockey, and we both white-knuckled it the whole trip because the engine on our side had noticeably loose mounting bolts.
Posted by ghCBNS (Member # 3093) on :
Here’s an airline trip report of mine from a couple of years ago: ‘Airport Hopping along the Coast’….and I get to do a repeat of this again in a couple of weeks. Stay tuned!
Mr. GH, you are the last around here (whoops, save Ms. Sojourner) I ever would have thought to be an airfan.
Two weekends from now, I'll be on a United ERJ-145 ORD-RIC and return on same. My seat is way aft on the single seat Left side of the aircraft.
Now all that will be needed is clear weather for some flightseeing.
Annoying how on a United A-320 ORD-LGA three weekends ago, here I was seated in 3B, and the guy in 3A was asleep with the shades down. A perfect flying day and I could have just as easily been on a military aircraft . Now adding insult to injury, this turned-out-to-be a nice guy opened the shade in time for the approach to LGA RWY 31 (full view of Manhattan). He then said, "I would have been happy to change seats with you". "But I like to flightsee". "No problem, I can sleep anywhere".
For the return HPN-ORD, on an ERJ-145 I had my assigned seat aft on the Left. But when I had to reroute the outward trip to LGA, my seat assignment was lost. Oh, oh, first step to being bumped. The gal at the counter said "I will personally be handling that flight's boarding, don't know where, but you'll be on it".
She delivered, but I ended up asile amidship - and with shades drawn. My seat mate was a gal eight months pregnant (what the hell was she doing flying?) and not overly interested in flightseeing. I did sheepishly ask her "Isn't eight months two close to fly?". "Not according to my boss; you fly or start your maternity leave now" (wow, thank someone "topside" I was out of big business during 1981).
Finally, a few days ago, I was talking with FA friend, Maureen (Senior enough to forget United has a domestic network). I said to her, "Dear, flying overseas I always have the in flight map on and it's so nice to see an iceberg, a ship, and the landfall" "Oh, one of those interfering with those watching (pacified perchance?) the movies?" to which I just left that with a "yes Dear".
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
GBN, your comments about flightseeing remind me that in the 'old days' the pilot would often comment on points of interest we were passing over. I'm not sure why that nice practice ended but these days the flights that track your flight on a screen are good, but I wish they had more detail. If not the railroad tracks, then identifying rivers and small towns would be good.
But then my first flight on a DC-3 none of that was necessary. We were so low it was easy to follow the route from familiar roads, rivers, and railroads.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Mr. Palmland, the last I recall of such was flying during 1983 ANC-ORD on a United DC-8 (good flightseeing acft) and the Captain pointed out the sights to the Left during the climb from ANC.
And on in-flight maps, I wish United's would show the aircraft's heading and course (it's no secret; it's on Flightaware). What's so funny is that the map shows a deviation from "undisclosed" course to heading, but how much is a mystery.
Now what if someone told me that somebody else had that info on their IFE, would I stop flying United? Not likely, it's the first airline I flew on during 1957, they had the MILW's Travel Desk (even if most of my flying with the MILW was on Northwest), and nowadays, I know my way around ORD Terminal 1, which was indeed handy when I had to reroute that flight from HPN to LGA.
Posted by ghCBNS (Member # 3093) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Mr. GH, you are the last around here (whoops, save Ms. Sojourner) I ever would have thought to be an airfan.
Just a notch below railfanning! For example....in July I could have taken Air Canada’s non-stop Halifax-Heathrow ‘767 but instead took a Q400 turboprop over to St. John’s, Newfoundland to connect into Air Canada’s little A319 narrow-body to cross the Atlantic. And I’ll do it again next spring when the brand new 737MAX take over the St. John’s – Heathrow route.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)