Update 18:15 CST TV interview ABC WFAA 8 Dallas PD Deputy Chief Randy Blankenbaker:
"Three plainclothes narcotics officers were conducting an inspection on Amtrak train at Union Station. They approached a suspicious male. This suspect was in possession of a handgun. A confrontation occurred that resulted in shots being fired. One officer one bystander taken to hospital with non-life-threatening injuries. Suspect died at scene."
Shooting occurred around 16:00, apparently onboard EB Eagle while sitting in Dallas Union Station. All rail traffic shut down for a while. Then DART (light rail) and TRE (heavy rail) re-opened. FOX 4 News reporter at Dallas Union Station reported Undercover narcotics officers "recently have been working Union Station."
Innocent bystander hit in shoulder (apparently a PAX). Three officers involved in shooting, one officer was shot in hand. Both taken to Baylor Hospital. Brother of PAX who was shot in shoulder gave brief TV interview. This guy, in his 20s, said he was sitting in SSL, then headed to his room (he said "cabin," interestingly) when he heard his bro had been shot.
Don't mess with Texas. Developing,,,there are news links on web, of course. This intel from local TV 6 o'clock and 5 o'clock reports.
Oh, and we had snow west of Fort Worth this morning,,,
Posted by Ocala Mike (Member # 4657) on :
Interesting incident. Were the plainclothes narcotics officers with the DEA or local police? Are there still "Texas Rangers" (lawmen, not the baseball team)?
Something like this happening on an Amtrak train raises a whole lot of issues in my mind about jurisdiction, etc., but I suppose it's a given that the train is NOT in its own little world, but comes under the jurisdiction of every different police agency it passes through, even though it may be on an INTER, not INTRA state trip.
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
I'm glad nobody from law enforcement was seriously injured or killed. I will be interested to see if Amtrak Police has any interest in this. I have been extremely unimpressed with Amtrak PD over the years. They had a homicide on the Coast Starlight two years ago, and to that they said "eh, so what" and left it to the locals. I know a little "inside baseball" on law enforcement, so their response to that was shocking to me. Besides the PR that they provide at rail-related open houses and other events, they are useless. At least everywhere outside the NEC they are.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
quote:Three plainclothes narcotics officers were conducting a routine inspection on the train, which was bound for Chicago, when they spotted a “suspicious male” about 4 p.m., Dallas Police Deputy Chief Randy Blankenbaker said.
“This suspect was in possession of a handgun and a confrontation occurred that resulted in shots being fired,” Blankenbaker said . . . .
Kevin James . . . saw several men approach the man sitting in the seat in front of him as if they were looking specifically for him, he said. It appeared the men asked the passenger for identification and whether they could search him, James said.
“He took the gun out and was just firing randomly,” James said. “There were five or six gunshots.”
Several Dallas stations are saying they will have updates later tonight.
Posted by ehbowen (Member # 4317) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ocala Mike: Interesting incident. Were the plainclothes narcotics officers with the DEA or local police? Are there still "Texas Rangers" (lawmen, not the baseball team)?
The Texas Rangers are (nowadays) a branch of the Texas Department of Public Safety and are very much alive and well.
Posted by The Chief (Member # 2172) on :
Interesting take on how Amtrak police will view this and will have any interest in the case, ESPECIALLY since this was reported:
Update 10 o'clock news WFAA ABC Ch 8 reports Amtrak rented three buses to move some PAX, and "the even flew some people on to Chicago."
TV station also reported "Amtrak's Top Cop" was in Dallas at a meeting. He came to Union Station and met with some PAX and handed some his biz card.
((That probably would be John O'Connor, Amtrak VP/Chief of Police.)) No. 22 EB Eagle departed at 9:27 p.m. PAX eyewitness reports indicate rounds struck Superliner interior, including one seatback.
Stephen Malone Jr., 32, of Waterford, Mich, named as decedent by Dallas County Medical Examiner.
This was lead story on two of four network local channels tonight at 10. Other two channels led with weather (North Texas snow and freeze), and then the Amtrak shooting story.
Note that the "Kevin James" TV witness George included in his wrap up is NOT the King of Queens - Paul Blart Kevin James.
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
So the Amtrak Chief of Police handed out his business card...nice....pretty much what I expected them to do (nothing). I don't know why an Amtrak police force is funded at all, with the exception of the NEC (where their presence is fairly heavy). They do absolutely NOTHING in the rest of the system except show up at PR events. When a real crime goes down, they are nowhere to be found. It's not the first time I've seen this--I have seen it over and over again for years now. Traditionally, when there is a crime that happens in someone's jurisdiction, the agency who handles that jurisdiction will become involved at some point. For example, in the Dallas incident, Amtrak Police was not around and the emergency aspect of things was handled by the locals. But from there, Amtrak's detectives should be flown in to handle ALL follow-up action on the case. The interviews, the evidence processing, photographs, contacting witnesses later on down the road, preparing the case for court, etc....But they don't do that. And when a police department doesn't do what a police department is supposed to do, well, what good are they?
Posted by RRCHINA (Member # 1514) on :
smitty195, I am sure the followers of this thread would want you to share what you "have seen over and over again for years". Perhaps only a few incidents would suffice.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
Smitty, I have trouble seeing your point. Since this occcurred in Dallas, Texas, involved the Dallas Police, and will be dealt with either under Texas or Federal law, I do not see how bringing in Amtrak police would do anything other tha muddy the waters. I would susspect that Dallas County and Texas itself would be far better equipped to deal with the situation and develop a case appropriate to Texas law, which is after all where any trial relevant to his event will occur.
It might be beneficial to have someone from Amtrak's police in as an advisor to the Dallas investigators on issues specific to Amtrak, such as vehicle or seating related, but otherwise, they would mainly be a cause of jurisdictional issue or simply be in the way.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
If the few facts that have been laid out are correct, then it seems to me that the Dallas police have logical jurisdiction. Their cops were involved, and the train was on their turf. The offenses are state and local. Amtrak police involvement would be unnecessary and maybe even complicating.
It does seem to me that the narcs may have gone about the case in all the wrong ways. If they knew the suspect was armed (it seems that way from the way the quotes are worded), why try to approach the subject in the presence of civilians who cannot easily remove themselves from the scene for safety?
But all the facts aren't yet in. There may have been good reasons for the cops to do what they did.
Let's keep open minds on the case till we know what actually happened.
Posted by The Chief (Member # 2172) on :
Update Tue On tonight's 10 o'clock news in interviews Dallas Police Chief David Brown admitted that slain suspect most likely did not even discharge his weapon.
That means, pending any conclusive ballistics tests, all GSWs were fired by Dallas cops.
Chief also noted the officers "followed the suspect" to the train to check him out, rather than in the station, which the chief repeatedly referred to as "the lobby." Brown said the train was a "safer place to confront the suspect" than in "the lobby." “We could have had a running gun battle in a lobby, he said. "The officers, in my opinion, approached this gentleman in the best way possible.”
That makes sense. Confront suspect in confined stainless steel tubular box full of passengers, add three plainsclothes cops, at least four weapons, and see what happens. In a "lobby" (i.e. station) like Dallas Union Station, people could at least flee. I think DPD screwed the pooch on this one.
Wonder if Amtrak's "top cop" John O'Connor, Amtrak VP/Chief of Police, in Dallas for a meeting, may raise some hell with locals boarding his train and creating what turned out to be quite a cluster and safety hazard.
Posted by ehbowen (Member # 4317) on :
The new Dallas police chief is called to answer questions about the incident....
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
Looks like DPD Internal Affairs will be catching this one. Can we say Amtrak Police ducked another bullet?
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
Henry pretty much makes my point for me. Since this occurred in Dallas and Dallas obviously has their own law enforcement, then what is the purpose of Amtrak PD? This applies not only to Dallas, but the entire Amtrak system (NEC excepted).
The way it SHOULD work is that the agency with the ultimate responsibility is the agency that handles the investigation. It doesn't happen very often in smaller police departments, but it does happen where a criminal is apprehended in jurisdiction "x", but the crime happened in jurisdiction "y". In that case, jurisdiction "y" will fly (or drive) a detective out to perform the follow-up activities and, if appropriate, take the suspect into custody and extradite him/her back to the proper jurisdiction. It is common in law enforcement for an agency to take a courtesy report on something, but then forward that to the proper agency for the actual investigation. Happens all the time.
For the Dallas/Amtrak incident, of course the locals on the scene will handle the items that are immediate and urgent. But contrary to what we see on TV, when an incident is over and the police leave the scene, that's not the end of it---that's just the beginning. Days and weeks of follow-up are required. This is where the proper law enforcement agency steps in and takes over the case. I have NEVER seen Amtrak PD do this. The most serious one that comes to mind in recent years is the homicide (or attempted homicide--I forget which) that occurred on train 14, The Coast Starlight. The suspect bailed out of the train in the middle of nowhere in Oregon, and the locals began the search. Eventually he was found hiding in the forest, and was taken into custody. When I asked someone who is a "higher up" within Amtrak PD some questions about that incident, his response was, "What homicide?'. He wasn't even aware of it, nor did he care. There have been other incidents over the years where this same thing has happened. The only thing that they seem to do is show up at PR events and act as security. I don't think there should even be an Amtrak PD, because they do absolutely NOTHING. I have several friends who are Amtrak employees working on the trains, and they have told me some stories that I'd rather not publish, but suffice it to say, they are a very unprofessional and non-responsive department. It's a waste of money to have them around. I also know some folks who are PV owners who have had thefts of very expensive tools from their cars while parked in the Amtrak yards (Amtrak employees are the suspects), and I suppose I probably shouldn't' get any further into that other than to say that Amtrak PD was, as usual, completely useless.
Posted by Ocala Mike (Member # 4657) on :
Dallas Police Department must be chanelling their predecessors of 48 years ago. They sure handled that Oswald/Ruby thing well, didn't they?
Still would like to know when DEA gets involved in narcotics cases. Seems to me since we obviously had interstate movements (actual or contemplated) going on here, they could have been advised to have agents board the train up the line and proceed to arrest this guy.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
I would suspect that Amtrak has a police departmetn primarily because railroad companies, at least the larger ones have police departments. If they really feel like they must have one, it should be limited to places like the northeast corridor and some places in Michigan where Amtrak owns the tracks and facilities. Otherwise, it would appear that they have the functionality of certaion parts of male pigs.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
The Dallas cops mounted an op that went south, a guy got killed, a cop and a passenger wounded, and we're beating up on Amtrak police in this thread?
At least it hasn't degenerated into a gun-rights squabble as it has on Amtrak Unlimited.
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
Well, *I'm* beating up Amtrak PD. As for the incident that went down at Union Station, I'll leave that to the DA's office to investigate. Police action is rarely as-reported, and the majority of the time, deadly force is well within the law and department policy. "Unarmed unemployed homeless counselor and family man slaughtered by gang of armed cops" makes a much better headline than what the truth usually is.
