Rather than hijacking Mr. Turner's Auto Train topic (I did love those ponies!), I would like to start a discussion of Mr. Norman's suggestion of Auto Trains from Galesburg to La Junta and/or the Denver area.
Of course I would love it, since almost all of my Amtrak travels involve driving from St. Paul to Iowa or Missouri to catch 5 or 3, and then renting a car at Albuquerque or Colorado for $200+. Galesburg would only be a few miles further.
But at the western end, I would propose there is a great snowbird market (refugees from winter, usually mature and wealthy), including those with winter homes in the southwest. It would be perfect for those going on a multi-month trip who need more than they can carry by plane and are not up to the drive. After 45 years of trips to AZ in winter, I know a significant portion of folks down there are from the midwest escaping winters, many with timeshares, trailer homes or friends to stay with.
In my younger days I used to travel by "driveaway" car. Agencies used newspaper ads to match people who wanted their cars in another locale to non-professional drivers who wanted to just get there. There were always tons of cars going to AZ and SoCal in early winter and returning in spring. The car owners paid a lot, and this was in the day when gas was 40 cents a gallon.
But at the western end La Junta still leaves a lot of driving, some of which may be treacherous in winter. How would ABQ or Belen be? Just past the snowstorms and a one day drive to AZ.
I suspect hauling that much weight over Raton Pass might be an issue, but these destinations would work even if 3/4 starts running through Amarillo (which might even work for Texas snowbirds as a car drop).
And then I have another Auto Train subject to throw out (don't laugh). Phoenix-Tucson. Everyone hates (more like HATES!!!) that drive. I just did it. Accidents galore, hundreds of trucks per mile, no alternatives, never again. Of the dozens of folks I threw this idea to in PHX and Tucson, they would all gladly fork out some major treasure to ride the rails beside the freeway and have their car at the other end. At around $200/car would a short Auto Train work? Maybe even for a private operator?
Of course Mr. Norman is correct that 60 Mass will never be pro-active, but it is fun to speculate on what could be done.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
While this posting first appeared at Mr. Turner's active Auto Train topic, I have moved it from there to this discussion. It appears here "verbatim". Mr. Kisor, I know and respect you made a tangential remark (at Mr. Turner's topic), but simply for others who may wish to chime in, there "ain't a gonna be" a Midwest Auto Train.
First, lest we forget it is a 'been there done that", as private Auto Train did try a Louisville-Sanford service - and it badly flopped. Far less known is that Amtrak had the same idea with Auto-Trak, an Indianapolis-Poinciana service that was stillborn.
As I've often noted at these pages, 99.44% of the AT passengers are not railfans; and "overnight is enough". I have been on delayed AT's in the past and be it assured, when noontime comes around, "arewethereyetitis" becomes quite endemic.
I have previously suggested here that if there is some initiative @60 Mass to try out new routes, "one nighters" such as Galesburg-La Junta and Galesburg-Irondale (rail facility some 10mi E of Denver) with auto carriers added to #3 & #5 and passengers handled in existing line space would be a "baby steps first", but with #3, Chief's, future routing up in the air, that may even be a non start.
And finally, simply by their nature, bureaucracies (anyone wish to make a case Amtrak is something other than that?) are REactive, as distinct from PROactive, institutions.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
Let's open a new Pandora's Box -
I wonder if there would be any interest from a 'private operator' to set up a midwestern auto-train?
Think about it -
Buy land outside Galesburg, build a terminal, acquire the neccessary rolling stock, do the same in greater Albuquerque, maybe build a hotel property adjacent to each terminal for guests who want to be there the day before...... contract with Amtrak to carry their cars behind #3 and #4.
The neccessary initiative isn't coming from Amtrak..... and I would wager that it isn't coming from the private sector either.
Which is unfortunate.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Amtrak certainly doesn't have the financial or political wherewithal to start another A-T operation. So, yes, if it's going to happen its got to be a private operator.
It seems to me, the only one that has interest, experience, and maybe the money to do this is Iowa Pacific, as we were discussing on another thread.
Most likely to succeed is on the SWC route: a neutral if not passenger friendly RR - BNSF, an underused route (where 60 mph is sufficient), and more likely to escape the winter extremes of a more northerly route.
I think a combined train (with SWC) is asking for trouble (as the Louisville experiment showed). It should operate on its own to insure a good operation and financial/operational independence from Amtrak.
As to destination, I would vote for Trinidad, CO: Its right on I-25 for those going north to Denver and southwest to Albuquerque. It's just over the Sangre de Cristo mountains from Iowa Pacific offices and operation based in Alamosa. It meets the very real criteria of a quick overnight trip (before all those non railfans get bored). And it is a nice drive to the superb winter ski and summer hiking/camping area in the San Juan mountains around Durango.
Are you listening, Ed Ellis?
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
If Iowa Pacific takes the ball here, I would imagine they would be running on their own without Amtrak given longstanding disagreements lingering from Iowa Pacfic's stillborn Rio Grande Ski Train attempt.
BUT - Iowa Pacific has some nice super domes in thier fleet. I say go for it.
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
40MPH for freight.
I just looked at google images pics of auto-racks. They look to me like bi-level instead of tri-level, but otherwise standard auto-racks.
GBN or rresor, your thoughts on running these things at 60MPH on falling apart track?
I'd rather see somewhere near Chicago with an aux pickup in KC to Belen and somewhere in LA (San Berdoo?) on the Transcon.
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
David,
for IP to make it a go, they have to have at least 3 complete consist sets, Chi-Alb, and 5 Chi to LA.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Mr. Pullman, Amtrak auto racks come in two varietals; bi-level for handling SUV's and Light trucks; tri-level for handling autos.
If Santa Fe trackage West of Newton is in rough shape in view of that BNSF has no use for it, then I would not want MY auto aboard. Honestly, I'd be happy if the existing 52-53 AT were slowed to 60 from its 65 on the RF&P and 70 on the A-Line..
The reason I selected Galesburg is that it is a 160 mile drive from Chi (less from affluent DuPage County) over Interstates. It is also better situated to accommodate traffic from other localities such as Indianapolis, St Louis, and even Twin Cities. Galesburg has vacant land around the depot as is, and BNSF yard crews could be available to handle the auto racks.
La Junta (elev 4229) also has BNSF facilities there; there is an ascent to Trinidad (elev 6010) that must also be considered.
If in addition to GBB-LAJ, there were also to be an Albuquerque-LA area service (San Bernardino would be a good choice for the LA area terminal as Mr. Pullman suggests), Mr. Google says drive time LAJ-ABQ is 5'22"; Amtrak scheduled time is 7'25". Therefore if one wanted to make a continuous Galesburg-Saint Bernie trip, they could drive over the mountains quicker than Amtrak could make it.
But alas, this is all fantasy anyway.
Posted by Vincent206 (Member # 15447) on :
My personal auto train west fantasy would be a route between somewhere near Portland and most likely Bakersfield. There are plenty of snowbirds that travel between the Pacific NW and southern California/Arizona to escape the winter cold and then return in the summer to avoid the scorching summer heat. This train wouldn't likely be popular enough for daily service, but one trainset would allow 3 weekly departures from each terminal.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
quote:As to destination, I would vote for Trinidad, CO: Its right on I-25 for those going north to Denver and southwest to Albuquerque. It's just over the Sangre de Cristo mountains from Iowa Pacific offices and operation based in Alamosa. It meets the very real criteria of a quick overnight trip (before all those non railfans get bored). And it is a nice drive to the superb winter ski and summer hiking/camping area in the San Juan mountains around Durango.
Nothing to do with rail travel, but have Google ads become so intrusive with their targeting that at this moment I'm getting ads (for Honda) in Spanish?
Or could it be that within the past hour I was talking with a neighbor (dear friend) about her upcoming family Spring Break trip to Mexico - and, in all likelihood, she had her 'smart phone" on?
Beyond the basics, such as you won't see my Tax Return or Portfolio on the internet, I'm no privacy freak, and my life is an open book. But this stuff gets "spooky" if I may say.
Posted by RussM (Member # 3627) on :
There are dozens of auto transport companies, and auto transport brokers that will ship your car anywhere in the country by truck. Of course, the advantage of the Autotrain is that the traveler and the car both arrive at their destination at the same time. Is that convenience enough to make people willing to travel by slow freight train ? As a rail travel fan, the answer for me is yes, provided I get a sleeper. I have friends who recently rode the Autotrain in coach, and hated it. The other consideration is cost. Can a railroad offer the service at a price that is competitive with shipping the car, and flying the people ?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
quote:Originally posted by RussM: I have friends who recently rode the Auto Train in coach, and hated it.
This was the one point on which Gene Garfield's business plan was weak. Garfield envisioned a Coach only Auto Train, but after too many calls to the effect of "You don't have Sleeper rooms?" "No ma'am, but our Coach seats are so comfortable you won't even know the difference", "Uh, we'll be back to you..." (CLICK) at the eleventh hour, he realized something had to be done.
It took Amtrak to recognize where the demand laid and adequately addressed the matter; where else on Amtrak will one find six line Sleepers than on AT?