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Anyone recall when Amtrak laid "enhanced dining" on the Capitol Limited? Can't find it with Google. Thanks to all.
smitty195 Member # 5102
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Just to clarify what you're asking about: Is this something different than Simplified Dining Service? Because I do have the date on that. (I can look it up if need be---I think it was in 2006).
Or does this refer to the "Cross Country Diner" and the Capitol's menu?
Henry Kisor Member # 4776
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"Enhanced dining service" seems to be the addition of real china (all right, Corian) and napery, with three attendants (including LSA) upstairs and three (I think) in the kitchen.
The meals on the Cap I rode last week and yesterday were actually better than decent. The chefs both way clearly have mastered the process of finishing off sous-vide cuisine.
The dining cars themselves seemed spanking new, and followed the old all-table layout. They probably were recent rebuilds of Cross Country Cafes.
MDRR Member # 2992
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Just for clarification, there are two in the kitchen. I want to say the start date was approx. 6 months ago, maybe less...
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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quote:Originally posted by Henry Kisor: The dining cars themselves seemed spanking new, and followed the old all-table layout. They probably were recent rebuilds of Cross Country Cafes.
Mr. Kisor, if the car you note is a reconfigured 370XX "Cross Country' Diner-Lounge, as distinct from a recently refurbished "in-kind" 380XX Diner, then I cannot think of greater testament to the folly of either the President or Congress attempting to micromanage Amtrak's affairs.
Save some experiments that obviously flopped, the 370XX cars never attained their goal of being the only Food/Beverage Service car on a train. Every train to which they are presently assigned, namely 21-22 (fanese: TE), 29-30 (CL), 58-59(CONO), has a separate Lounge car. They reportedly cost $1M a copy to rebuild, which so near as I can tell, the excess of that sum over that needed to refurbish the car "in kind', simply represented 'waste".
The whole Simplified Dining initiative appears to be going to the landfill. While expertise has been gained regarding what foods can, and likewise cannot, be catered, such could have been attained without having rebuilt equipment into a configuration that has proven to be of no use for existing Amtrak routes.
palmland Member # 4344
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I had thought the Capital was getting a full diner again. The CCC cars were probably an ok idea, just executed poorly. There are a couple trains it could serve as a combined lounge/diner. The Cap isn't one of them.
Perhaps Henry is saying they have reconfigured the CCC with the lounge section being removed and replaced by more of the table layout in the dining section?? That would make sense, at least in Amtrak's world. To not use the lounge section at all really is a waste as GBN notes.
I see the new (effective Nov. 7, 2011) timetable clearly says "enhanced dining - complete meals served on china". I don't believe the prior TT (spring-summer 2011) had that reference but don't have it handy to verify.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Mr. Palmland, in view of that it appears the proposal to add a 370XX "CCC" Diner-Lounge to 27-28 (PDX Builder) went nowhere, what other routes would you have mind for a combined Diner-Lounge?
The "Banquette' arrangement in the "CCC" cars is simply inappropriate for Amtrak's communal seating. "Three's a crowd" lest we forget, although I must acknowledge on my 2010 CHI-59-JAN-58-CHI joyride, I was seated next to a 'twentysomething' gal (she in the center) in a "post college-pre life" status. It turned out that her Mother and I were contemporaries at the MILW and we (confirmed by a text) knew (and liked) one another.
If Amtrak is now reconfiguring those cars (they always had the capacity to serve full meals as one of such was assigned to the 2008 "Good Morning America" train), this is a change for the better.
Oh and finally, "gottaluv" the noted reference to enhanced dining with china. Uh, Wedgewood aboard Amtrak? Might a little more truth in advertising be "ceramic ware"?
Henry Kisor Member # 4776
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Wish I'd checked the number of the dining car. Both it and the lounge car seemed spanking new.
A retired high Amtrak management official told me the CCCs are being returned to regular diner conformation.
As a diner I never had the negative view of CCC cars most people seem to have. But I can understand how inefficient they were.
smitty195 Member # 5102
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I think the answer to your question is roughly late summer of 2011 (6 months ago, give or take).
I did not know that the CCC cars were going back to regular diners, however, I am not surprised. I am on record (on this forum) stating that the whole idea was a huge waste of money, and that Amtrak will tear apart the cars and rebuild them as diners once they realize that the concept does not work. It was SO easy to predict this outcome. They could have paid me a million bucks for my advice, and then they could have saved the $25 million or so that it's going to cost them to turn all of those diners into CCCs, and then the CCCs back into diners again.
I will say that the CCCs looked very nice---they were aesthetically pleasing. But as far as function goes, they were terrible, and I just don't understand why they did it. To me, the writing was on the wall and it was a no-brainer. But like I've said before, one thing that Amtrak is great at is reinventing the wheel (over and over and over again). Just think what they could have spent those millions on.
smitty195 Member # 5102
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quote:Originally posted by Henry Kisor: The meals on the Cap I rode last week and yesterday were actually better than decent.
I'm assuming you had similar menu choices that I had on the Starlight last week. If so, I agree--their food has improved 100%. I don't know how they did it (or who did it), but the changes are very positive. I really enjoyed my meals on this last trip.
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Thanks Henry. Glad you enjoyed the improved dining on the westbound Capitol Ltd.. When I travelled on it (Aug.19,2010)it definitely had the cross-country cafe in tow. We sat in a banquette which was enjoyable. Also from your report the scenery seems much better eastbound.
Henry Kisor Member # 4776
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I have since been told that CCC cars are not presently being rebuilt, but some have had the banquettes removed and standard tables and booths installed (leaving the big working station in the middle of the car). I guess the Amtrak management retiree meant that the CCC cars would be reconfigured as time goes on and they go in for refurbishing. Still trying to nail this down.
Henry Kisor Member # 4776
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Finally did nail it down. Amtrak Media Relations says there are no plans to convert the CCC cars and that they still have lots of service life left in them. My apologies for suggesting otherwise.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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I would not have expected that the 370XX CCC cars would be returned to their original configuration as 380XX Diners; that would be a waste compounded atop waste.
However, installing straight four seat tables in place of the Lounge area and the Banquettes is a positive step to enable the cars to be assigned as Diners on any Superliner train.
smitty195 Member # 5102
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Thanks for checking/verifying, Henry.
Henry Kisor Member # 4776
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Further word from Media Relations is that the CCC cars are being used on the Texas Eagle and the City of New Orleans. (The word "only" was not used.) I wonder if some of the cars are used as protection for for bad-ordered diners on other trains.
MDRR Member # 2992
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quote:Originally posted by Henry Kisor: Further word from Media Relations is that the CCC cars are being used on the Texas Eagle and the City of New Orleans. (The word "only" was not used.) I wonder if some of the cars are used as protection for for bad-ordered diners on other trains.
Yes, there is one generally kept in the yard in Wash. DC, where, I would assume, it could be used to replace either a lounge or diner.
RRRICH Member # 1418
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Great report, Henry, as always. Sorry about the poor horse the train hit -- I took a trip once on the CZ when we hit a cow somewhere in Iowa. That stuff happens!
smitty195 Member # 5102
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I saw a CCC sitting in the yard in Seattle, along with one Coach-Baggage. Not sure if those are on standby just in case, or if they just happened to be there the day that I saw them.
palmland Member # 4344
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What is Amtrak doing with all the CCC cars (anyone know how many there are).
Yes, GBN, the Spokane train is a good candidate. Didn't know Amtrak gave up on that plan. Or, how about the Heartland Flyer. And I'm not so sure it isn't appropriate for the CONO - not many for dinner I would expect with the late CHI departure southbound and low passenger loads south of Memphis on the northbound run. But, that won't happen while it runs thru to the TE.
Perhaps Amtrak should lease the CCC's to Iowa Pacific for their Pullman experiment later this year.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Mr. Palmland, there are 17 CCC Diner Lounges road # 37000-37016.
The CHI-21-SAS-22-CHI-59-NOL-58-CHI assignment would appear to need five cars, the CHI-30-WAS-29-CHI three. Throw in a "protect" and two out for 'shopping' and eleven cars are assigned. That means six more are on, uh shall we say, "Appendix C-2", or otherwise "employee protection".
Henry Kisor Member # 4776
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Are there any other trains besides the Capitol Limited and Empire Builder that Amtrak bills as having "Enhanced Dining Service"? I take it that this just means china (Corian), glassware and linen napery, plus an additional service attendant.
I also take it that the provender is basically the same on most LD trains, sous-vide dishes finished off in convection ovens.
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