NEW SCHEDULE FOR SUNSET LIMITED BENEFITS PASSENGERS AND IMPROVES FINANCIAL PERFORMANCE; Better connections, increased ridership and revenue, and reduced costs
NEW ORLEANS -- A new schedule for the Amtrak Sunset Limited is planned to take effect on May 7 for the New Orleans-Los Angeles route that will change the days of westbound operations and provide better connections for passengers travelling to and through California. These changes are expected to increase ridership and revenue, and reduce crew layover costs.
"The passenger benefits and financial improvement resulting from changing the Sunset Limited schedule are two-fold: Amtrak is providing better service and acting to improve our bottom line," said President and CEO Joe Boardman. "These are improvements that can be implemented quickly, require no capital investment and will enhance connectivity across our national network."
The westbound Sunset Limited (Train 1) will depart from New Orleans on Mondays, Wednesdays and Saturdays almost three hours earlier each day than the current Monday, Wednesday, Friday schedule. While there is no change to the eastbound Sunset Limited (Train 2) days of operations from Los Angeles on Sundays, Wednesdays and Fridays, it will depart seven hours later each day in order to restore connections between the Sunset Limited and the Amtrak Coast Starlight (Trains 11 & 14) and to make possible an attractive next morning arrival to Arizona destinations.
In addition, the change will significantly reduce the layover for through passengers at San Antonio by more than seven hours for eastbound passengers and by more than three hours for westbound passengers when railcars are exchanged between the Sunset Limited and the Texas Eagle (Trains 21 & 22).
Better connections between the Sunset Limited, Coast Starlight, Texas Eagle and Amtrak corridor services in California are predicted to increase the ridership and revenue of these trains.
Those passengers who have already purchased tickets for the period affected by the schedule change will be notified and offered rebooking at no charge.
Inaugurated by the Southern Pacific Railroad in 1894, the Sunset Limited has been operated by Amtrak since its inception in 1971. Nearly 100,000 passengers rode the Sunset Limited last year, an increase of almost nine percent over the previous fiscal year.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Somebody in the Legal Department apparently has decided it is safe to go in the water. Possibly there is an applicable Statute of Limitations.
The reason why this days of operation change had not been made earlier is because there was the "phantom" Sunset East "temporarily suspended". Therfore the train had to be scheduled so that the "equipment" could "run" to Orlando and be "turned" for a "next day' departure.
It appears that charade is over and now the equipment will be utilized to its best advantage.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
This returns the train more to it's 'traditional' schedule in the Amtrak era and improves service times, particularly eastbound, at Maricopa, Tucson, and Houston...... arguably the three stations with the largest potential ridership.
Posted by Mike Smith (Member # 447) on :
Great!! Our cruise to Alaska from Seattle in June 2013 can easily be made via Amtrak. I was worried about the LAX connection. And this will be my sister's and husband's first Amtrak trip. (Yes they will get the room. I may have to get the roomette with the points going up to 40,000 for a room.)
Posted by Jerome Nicholson (Member # 3116) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Somebody in the Legal Department apparently has decided it is safe to go in the water. Possibly there is an applicable Statute of Limitations.
The reason why this days of operation change had not been made earlier is because there was the "phantom" Sunset East "temporarily suspended". Therfore the train had to be scheduled so that the "equipment" could "run" to Orlando and be "turned" for a "next day' departure.
It appears that charade is over and now the equipment will be utilized to its best advantage.
Reality - What a concept!
Posted by SilverStar092 (Member # 2652) on :
What a surprise. Amtrak has lied for all these years by listing my city and others in the phantom schedule as "service to be determined". No matter whether anyone out there believes this a necessary service, as a Floridian I am appalled that they took our state's major investment in improvements which fueled start up of service then ditched the train due to a natural disaster. This was an illegal move by Amtrak and it has complicated travel for many folks. The train did just fine until the SP and UP fouled it up by delivering super late trains to CSX at NOL. Had Amtrak been serious about operating successful service, they would have extended the City of New Orleans to Florida or used its equipment for a train to the Sunshine State. That possibility still remains if Amtrak wants to give it a go but we all know that's not likely.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
It is high time that the railroad be run by the professionals - and not by the Legal Beagles.
Evidently, the consensus at 60 Mass holds that the concern I have previously expressed here that a train was discontinued without the 180 Day Notice under ARAA '97 is either unfounded or is of such remote concern that IF Amtrak were required to restore service, it would simply be gone in 181 days.
But failing that, Amtrak has successfully discontinued a train without the Notice; management should be pleased to know they now have that prerogative. Presumably, one set of equipment assigned to the Sunset can now be released for use elsewhere on the System.
Finally, here is a more detailed report posted today at TRAINS Newswire. Access to the material requires a subscription to a Kalmback rail related publication:
I guess this means that Amtrak can and should be allowed to discontinue any train at their own discretion without taking required legal steps. Thusly, if the BNSF line west of Newton finally falls into unusable condition and rerouting via Amarillo is judged to be not desirable, can Amtrak simply cut the SW Chief without due process to the traveling public? Likewise, how would some of you feel if Amtrak had decided to drop the Empire Builder or the CZ as a result of last summer's floods rather than restoring those trains soon after the floodwaters subsided? I know, all of the above are better patronized but Sunset East was doomed by late trains coming in from LA. Ridership was okay up until that point and the tri-weekly service was a major killer to ridership expansion. GBN may be right about killing it on the 181st day but, you know what? Those of us who depended upon this service were never given the opportunity to fight a "train off" petition. I call that unfair. If Amtrak were a private business such a quick termination could be called a business decision but Amtrak is a taxpayer subsidized service and, as such, should serve the public. The fact that one must travel via the Northeast from Florida in order to reach California is logical only in the world of Amtrak.
Posted by Ocala Mike (Member # 4657) on :
If you want to get the service back, this might be a good starting point.
Posted by mr williams (Member # 1928) on :
What happened to the proposal to make NOL-SAS a stub train and the TE the through train?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Amtrak likely found they were confronted with a dilemma regarding "a golden opportunity to be rid of something in all likelihood they never wanted in the first place". To what extent will the law be "bent" or, as Mr. Turner noted, do we annul with the intent as we did in the case of disruptions with other trains such as the Builder, Zephyr, and Starlight - all services where to not have them, the political repercussions would be severe, so therefore we want them.
With the upcoming days of operation change, as well as the release of the equipment set assigned to the "Sunset East", Amtrak will be in a hard to defend position that they have done anything other than discontinue service over the route. Violation of ARAA '97 notwithstanding, Amtrak appears confident they can deflect any possibly challenges from advocates, and that they will not be forced into restoring service - and maybe for longer than 181 days as a form of "punishment". It will be interesting to see how the Sunset route is presented in the next timetable.
All told, Amtrak management appears to have won a victory in successfully discontinuing a service without Notice. To what extent this victory will serve as precedent elsewhere remains to be seen.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike Smith: Great!! Our cruise to Alaska from Seattle in June 2013 can easily be made via Amtrak. I was worried about the LAX connection. And this will be my sister's and husband's first Amtrak trip. (Yes they will get the room. I may have to get the roomette with the points going up to 40,000 for a room.)
Mike - maybe you could move that cruise up to 2012! You can book bedrooms for travel this summer at the old rate IF you book before the new rates become effective at, I believe, the beginning of April.
I booked a Bedroom ABQ-CHI for travel in July at the old rate last month.
Posted by Mike Smith (Member # 447) on :
It is too late to book an Alaska cruise for June 2012. There are 3 couples going and maybe a 4th, from 3-4 different parts of the country. Coordinating a June 2013 is much easier in or around June of this year.
Posted by Mike Smith (Member # 447) on :
And I was just thinking... Is there some sort of law that allows a route to be abandoned if the route has been temporarily suspended for more than 4 years?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
The new schedule effective May 7 is now available at the website, Westward #1 departs Mo We Sa NOL 900A; arrives LAX 535A where you can be sure passengers will have to vacate upon arrival (no "parked for occupancy until 8AM" as one used to find on set out Sleeper lines and I think still do overseas). Eastward #2 departs Su We Fr LAX 1000P and arrives NOL 900P - connecting with nothing and cutting into "party time" in the Quarter.
Likely the 530A arrival of #1 was predicated by LAUPT becoming a mass transit hub with the tracks needed to handle Metrolink during rush hour.
Posted by sojourner (Member # 3134) on :
Cruise tip: If you are going on a cruise, be sure you arrive at the city from which your cruise ship departs the day BEFORE your cruise leaves. (If the cost of the cruise ship hotel is too high, find another to stay in.) This applies whether you fly or take the train. Because there is nothing worse than missing your ship. And I don't even know if insurance will cover missing the ship due to a problem with your train or plane!
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike Smith: And I was just thinking... Is there some sort of law that allows a route to be abandoned if the route has been temporarily suspended for more than 4 years?
Not that I am aware, Mr. Smith.
I believe the now apparent discontinuance of Sunset East without Notice was simply the Amtrak Legal Department determing that "nobody cares" outside of the advocacy community.
Unless someone can come forth to establish how Amtrak complied with 180 Day Notice provisions of ARAA '97, or that provisions somehow "sunset" after a given period of time, I can only hold that Amtrak violated the law. However, contrary to thoughts likely held by other here more attuned to advocacy than am I, I'm not about to suggest Amtrak be sanctioned for this apparent violation. This was a route outside the Basic System set forth under RPSA '70, that was inaugurated in response to some political leaning, and never "pulled its weight" with regards to patronage.
It appears that the coffin has now been nailed.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: The new schedule effective May 7 is now available at the website, Westward #1 departs Mo We Sa NOL 900A; arrives LAX 535A where you can be sure passengers will have to vacate upon arrival (no "parked for occupancy until 8AM" as one used to find on set out Sleeper lines and I think still do overseas). Eastward #2 departs Su We Fr LAX 1000P and arrives NOL 900P - connecting with nothing and cutting into "party time" in the Quarter.
Likely the 530A arrival of #1 was predicated by LAUPT becoming a mass transit hub with the tracks needed to handle Metrolink during rush hour.
Even on the current schedule, I would be reluctant to schedule a same day connection of any sort from the eastbound Sunset.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
GBN -
Where should I look for the new Sunset timetable? I've not been able to find the link yet.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
You'll have to query "mock" itineraries; the timetable is not yet available.
Posted by The Chief (Member # 2172) on :
David P, There's a timetable (times-stations) at the bottom of the Amtrak 13 March News Release:
Hope this helps.
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
Just curious, but did the Sunset East have anything to do with Sen. Trent Lott (an Amtrak advocate) supporting it? So when it was discontinued there might have been no one in the region with the same clout the leader of the Senate had.
Also, I was reading on another site that UP was upgrading track east of Phoenix to serve an expanding customer base there. I know I am dreaming, but this new schedule would work nicely by way of downtown Phoenix, making the Sunset a little later into LA and out of the way of the UP heavy freight traffic. The logic used in the "Sunset News Release" above ("to increase ridership and revenue") might also apply. ....If only UP were to decide it would be in it's own best interest to connect this upgraded track to Yuma.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
Got it!
I'm mildly surprised that they didn't pad the westbound schedule enough to push the Los Angeles arrival back till after 6:00am.
Posted by SilverStar092 (Member # 2652) on :
First, more interesting commentary about the Sunset East is posted by Gene Poon on Trainorders.com on 3/13/12. A great use of the equipment set saved by rescheduling the Sunset West would be to extend the City of New Orleans to Florida. The City's equipment is idle overnight at NOL so that train set plus the set saved by the Sunset rescheduling would permit daily service between NOL and Jacksonville. This is what Amtrak should have done long ago and it's what they should do now even if they want to give 180 day notice. At least that would allow cities time to demonstarte their support (which Amtrak does not want.) As for the new Sunset schedule, I see this as setting up the demise of first class service east of San Antonio. Though the deal with UP seems to nix daily service west of SAS, Amtrak can now easily run the Texas Eagle tri-weekly CHI-LA and run a stub train NOL-SAS. The new schedule sets up for a coach and snack bar service NOL-SAS which will hasten the demise of that operation as few will ride such a downgraded train. Why a CHI to LA train taking one extra night compared to the SW Chief appeals to Amtrak is anyone's guess but that's the way I read this. Perhaps that service would then fail which would allow discontinuation of yet more Amtrak trains. The LA arrival is absurd...in March 2011 we rode the Sunset NOL-LA and arrived at 7:00am, 90 minutes early. Similar timeliness on the new schedule will get the train into LA at about 4:00am. There are no connecting trains anywhere at that hour and there is nothing to do at LA Union but sit and wait. On our trip (Sunday arrival) the car rental agencies didn't open until at least 9:00am which required a couple hours of sitting around...not even a Metropolitan Lounge in which to cool our heels.
Posted by SunsetLtd (Member # 3985) on :
Looking at the padding alone it looks like #1 will be pulling into LAUPT at 4:45am before sunrise. That can't possibly appeal to anybody! Sure those on different timezones would not feel it as much but would you really desire to get off your train in pre-dawn hours? It seems a bit of an overkill, and they should of left the NOL departure time as is and just tightened the schedule instead. This schedule stills seems a bit over-padded.
Posted by mr williams (Member # 1928) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: you can be sure passengers will have to vacate upon arrival (no "parked for occupancy until 8AM" as one used to find on set out Sleeper lines and I think still do overseas).
The news release advises that sleeper passengers may remain aboard at LAUPT until 6.30.
Yes, 8.00am would have been nicer but it's better than nothing!!
Posted by Mike Smith (Member # 447) on :
It means fewer missed connections to the Coast Starlight. I like it.
Posted by sbalax (Member # 2801) on :
That will leave plenty of time to check your bags, go over to Philippe for a nice breakfast (Which, I have to admit, I have never had in more than 50 years of eating there!) and then explore some of the Old Pueblo area where Los Angeles began. There would also be time for a quick ride on Metro.
This would also be a nice argument for a Lounge of some sort at LAUPT for Sleeping Car passengers.
Frank in overcast and cool SBA
Posted by mr williams (Member # 1928) on :
quote:Originally posted by sbalax: go over to Philippe for a nice breakfast
I thought it might be too cynical to suggest that there will presumably no longer be breakast served on the westbound morning of arrival nor dinner on the eastbound evening departures!
Presumably on the eastbound the cafe car would be open for an hour or so upon departure?
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
Frank -- you have never had a "nice" breakfast at Phillipe's? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
![[Frown]](frown.gif)