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As part of a western trip, I've been trying to get a room on the CZ from EMY to DEN for a week or so. All space was showing sold out for our date in early August (and the day before and after).
Today, all types of rooms were available. Our car number is 633. Any idea what's going on since I thought the first sleeper was 630. Maybe it's the transition car but that would still make 4 if the car numbers are in sequence. If there are 4 sleepers, hope we have a good dining car crew!
smitty195 Member # 5102
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Weird, but 633 is definitely a regular sleeper and not the trans/dorm. The Zephyr always has the first sleeping car (against the diner) as the 30 car (0630), so the 633 would indeed be the 4th sleeper. I know that they add a 4th to the Starlight, but I didn't know this about the Zephyr. And it's not an extra that comes on/off at DEN because it would not have that number--it goes all the way through.
I remember riding the Desert Wind/CA Zephyr/Pioneer when we had two dining cars. That was a hoot---"This is the Zephyr diner--those with a 5:30PM dinner reservation please come to the ZEPHYR diner now". Of course, most AmTravelers don't know (and don't care) that the train was actually three trains in one, so all they heard was "dining car" and "5:30 dinner reservations". It really messed things up with people going to the wrong diner at the wrong time.
Henry Kisor Member # 4776
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On my Zephyr trip two weeks ago, our SCA told us that a third sleeper was going to be added in April to help handle summer demand.
I recall back in '91-92 when riding the CZ/Pioneer/Desert Wind that there was just one diner. Things were busy.
ColdRain&Snow Member # 15381
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Just FYI, but the CZ does not use a 30 sleeper. The first sleeper after the Dining Car is the 31 car (unlike other trains like the CS where the first car is the 30 car), followed by the 32 Car. The 33 car is the third sleeper which was also added last year for much of the peak season.
notelvis Member # 3071
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I read somewhere that Amtrak will not handle private cars to/from Denver while the redevelopment of Denver Union Station is under way. This is because there is only the one single track into the temporary station with no space for storing extra equipment or servicing such while there....
Of course if Amtrak really wanted to, they could back the Zephyr into the temporary Denver station in both directions. Drop a sleeper from #5 at the tail end of the track in the morning and pick that sleeper up with #6 in the evening.
smitty195 Member # 5102
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quote:Originally posted by ColdRain&Snow: Just FYI, but the CZ does not use a 30 sleeper. The first sleeper after the Dining Car is the 31 car (unlike other trains like the CS where the first car is the 30 car), followed by the 32 Car. The 33 car is the third sleeper which was also added last year for much of the peak season.
You are completely right---I messed that up. Sorry about that! I know that the Zephyr always has the 31 car against the diner and it was "different" from the rest, but I thought it through wrong.
smitty195 Member # 5102
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quote:Originally posted by Henry Kisor: On my Zephyr trip two weeks ago, our SCA told us that a third sleeper was going to be added in April to help handle summer demand.
I recall back in '91-92 when riding the CZ/Pioneer/Desert Wind that there was just one diner. Things were busy.
I'd have to really think about the dates that I rode where they had two diners. Right off the top of my head, I'm thinking it had to be summer as that's when I took the Desert Wind trips back then. I don't know if they staffed that second diner regularly or how it worked (I really didn't "follow" Amtrak closely back then--I just rode the trains).
Didn't the Zephyr/Wind/Pioneer always have two diners anyway? Because when the Pioneer split, it would take a diner with it--and the Zephyr always had a diner. The Pioneer diner became the lounge/diner and they still provided full meals on the Pioneer route. The Wind got the Sightseer Lounge Car. (if I'm remember all of this correctly)
Henry Kisor Member # 4776
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Smitty, my memory is hazy too, but I think in '91-'92 either a diner or a lounge car was coupled onto the Pioneer at Denver eastbound and uncoupled westbound. Same with Desert Wind at SLC. I just don't remember more than one diner on 5/25/35 leaving Chicago. A Sightseer Lounge stayed with 5 after SLC, I remember that for sure. (Can you imagine going over the Sierra without a Lounge?)
palmland Member # 4344
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Got a message from Amtrak: "Your reservation has been changed. If you have issues with these changes please contact 1-800-USA-RAIL (1-800-872-7245). Here are your new travel details."
We're now in 0632. So, mystery solved, I guess. Wonder if there ever was a 0633 or just a reservation glitch.
I'm looking forward to this segment of our trip as I've never taken the CZ eastbound, although long ago did ride the the Yampa Valley Mail from Bond, CO back to Denver.
Henry Kisor Member # 4776
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GBN, could you check the consist of No. 5 sometime soon from your perch at MP 18?
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Observed #5(17)@ MP18.32 and it was "the usual"; 2 P-42's, Bagg, T-Dorm, 3 Coaches, Lounge, Diner, 2 Sleepers - nine cars.
palmland Member # 4344
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I wonder if they will still add the Denver sleeper for the summer season? In spite of the 'new' station in Denver, it should work since a back up move is still required, as Notelvis notes. Nice to see the sleepers still on the rear, presumably for that purpose.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Since Amtrak is not handling "PV's" at Denver "for the duration', it is likely that they cannot handle a pick up/set out car of any varietal there. Hopefully, with the ARRA equipment rebuilds as well as "state of good repair' starting to mean something, there will be sufficient equipment available to protect a third CHI-EMY line.
Henry Kisor Member # 4776
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The impression given by the SCA three weeks ago was that the third sleeper would go all the way CHI-EMY.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Mr. Kisor, I think you will find that for the SCA you note, official Amtrakese for that position is TA/S (Train Attendant/Sleeper).
Henry Kisor Member # 4776
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Yes. This has been reported (and debated) on the Amtrak Unlimited forum ad infinitum the last few months. Although "TA/S" is correct for internal use, Amtrak's own website and marketing materials call the position "Sleeping Car Attendant." It is perhaps a distinction of terminology that signifies little.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Mr. Kisor, I have to wonder if this third Sleeper line CHI-EMY for the Zephyr needs the two cars that will be released when the Sunset days of operation are changed May 7.
Henry Kisor Member # 4776
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Adding a third sleeper to Nos. 5 and 6 would mean that six more sleeping cars are needed for the CZ roster, is that right? They have to come from somewhere.
palmland Member # 4344
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Maybe not. If Amtrak in past summers has 'found' enough sleepers for the CHI-DEN sleeper, maybe this means only 3 more are needed? So, 2 from the Sunset and 1 from ---.
I suspect this means the sleepers will return to the front of the trains since presumably the reason for the placement in the rear was to facilitate dropping the Denver car.
PullmanCo Member # 1138
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Once upon a time, Terminal Railroads had switching crews. Sometimes they came from the railroads of the TR, sometimes they were employed directly. It was routine to move equipment to and from coach yards and Post Office tracks.
Well, today, most Amtrak stations are "just another station on the line." Switching is done by the road crew in road engines that make an E-6 look good for visibility. In addition, in my lifetime, Denver has always... always been a complicated move, whether I was on UP 9-10 or Amtrak 5-6.
I can see why Amtrak would close Denver to PV until the work is done.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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quote:Originally posted by palmland: Maybe not. If Amtrak in past summers has 'found' enough sleepers for the CHI-DEN sleeper, maybe this means only 3 more are needed? So, 2 from the Sunset and 1 from ---.
According to Mr. Ainsworth's site, #32046, that took a whackin at Kensington during July 02, is reparable at an estimated cost of almost $2M. Possibly Amtrak feels "flush" enough nowadays to return this one to service.
Henry Kisor Member # 4776
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I asked my wife if I was correct that our SCA (TA/S to the pure of heart) had said the third sleeper would go all the way to EMY, as I'd thought. She said she wasn't sure. So I'll back away from that contention a bit.
Is the platform at Denver long enough to set off a sleeper? The train does back in, so presumably no switching would be required for No. 5 to drop off a CHI-DEN sleeper in the morning and No. 6 to pick it up in the evening.
notelvis Member # 3071
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The platform at the temporary Amtrak Station in Denver makes an odd little curve towards the street (Wewatta St. I think) just before the end-of-track. From photos I have seen, it seems like there would be just enough room for one sleeper dropped by #5 and picked up later the same day by #6.
The issue, however, is likely who will 'keep an eye on things'. It is unlikely that there is anyone on Amtrak's payroll in Denver who could pull the pin and disconnect the brake hoses and HEP lines....... and then reconnect them when #6 arrives.
Henry Kisor Member # 4776
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Just had an official answer from Media Relations: The third sleeper on Nos. 5 and 6 indeed will go all the way from Chicago to Emeryville and back. Dates:
No. 5: May 16-Sept. 9 No. 6: May 19-Sept. 12
palmland Member # 4344
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Good info, thanks. Will be interesting to see how they are placed in the train.
palmland Member # 4344
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Perhaps our official Chicago land train spotter can confirm if this happened and its location.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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I have had several observations of both #5 & #6 recently and I can confirm that there are now three Sleepers placed to the rear of the Diner.
smitty195 Member # 5102
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quote:Originally posted by palmland: Good info, thanks. Will be interesting to see how they are placed in the train.
My guess is that since this will be a regular sleeper, traveling the entire route, that it will just become the 33 sleeper (with the three sleepers being xx31, xx32, and xx33). I don't see why they would place it anywhere else, since it will not be coming off enroute.
palmland Member # 4344
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Thanks Smitty, GBN. Should be a good ride on No. 6 to DEN.
ColdRain&Snow Member # 15381
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Yessir, I rode 5(16) from Chi to Emy in the 33 car, and we were the first consist to have the extra sleeper. Lucked out with a nice ARRA rebuild for that run.
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