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At the blog, I've noted this is simply one more inconsistency that, for better or worse, is endemic to the Amtrak product.
Vincent206 Member # 15447
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The "no outside visitors in the sleepers" rule is usually rigidly enforced by train crews. I'm sure the gentleman you encountered was honest and meant no harm, but not everyone you meet on an Amtrak train is going to be so pure of heart. It might seem arrogant to bar random coach passengers from the sleepers but sleeper attendants are expected to keep their cars safe and clean for the sleeper passengers. There are plenty of good reasons to keep an eye on the people entering the sleeper: there aren't any locks on the room doors and sometimes people leave valuables in their rooms, some visitors might be looking for open rooms that they could sneak into at night or they might just be looking for a quick shower or some free orange juice. It might be all right for someone to take a quick visit into the sleeper at the end of the trip, but during the journey it's best to keep the wanderers out of the sleepers.
Train Granny Member # 30118
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quote:Originally posted by Vincent206: The "no outside visitors in the sleepers" rule is usually rigidly enforced by train crews.
How is a first time sleeper car passenger supposed to know about this rule?
Henry Kisor Member # 4776
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Doesn't the conductor make an announcement about only sleeping car passengers in the sleepers? Or maybe the diner LSA?
smitty195 Member # 5102
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quote:Originally posted by Train Granny:
How is a first time sleeper car passenger supposed to know about this rule? [/QUOTE]
Because of the sign on the door that says, "Sleeping Car Passengers Only Beyond This Point".
palmland Member # 4344
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Perhaps the new Viewliners will have the key card system in use by hotels. You use your card to enter the sleeper as well as your own room.
smitty195 Member # 5102
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quote:Originally posted by palmland: Perhaps the new Viewliners will have the key card system in use by hotels. You use your card to enter the sleeper as well as your own room.
Heh heh...we can only dream about that. Even if they did have it, Amtrak would find a way to break it within the first week.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Pretty sure the FRA has other ideas about restraining passage through a train in an emergency, Mr. Palmland.
The New Haven would lock Sleepers or set the gate between the Coaches, and many a Pullman had a doorbell to ring for the Porter if the car was locked. I'd wager C&O "City of--" 10-6 cars were so equipped.
But I believe the FRA has other ideas nowadays. The only defense Amtrak can place is the signage saying Sleeping Car Only, but I'm willing to bet the Sleeper assigned to 50(24) did not have such.
Train Granny Member # 30118
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No announcements on either of my trips; No sign on the door saying "Sleeper Car Passengers ONLY"; No card entry; No keys.
I have never heard of paying high prices for a "room" anywhere and not being allowed to take a guest in the room with you.
I totally agree that unaccompanied coach passengers should not be allowed to roam around in the sleeper cars; but, if someone is going to MY room with ME, I don't see how that rule can apply... or be enforced.
Train Granny Member # 30118
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I love these conversations! Really makes me think! And, don't worry, I'm not about to stop riding the train and not about to stop paying for sleeper cars when I can afford it!
notelvis Member # 3071
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I have to agree with Smitty on this one. A key card entry system for rooms in an Amtrak sleeping car would hold up just as long as a latte machine in a Pacific Parlour Car.
Might even manage to lock a few passengers inside their rooms for 10-12 hours. How embarrassing would that be?
Marty - many of the folks staffing Amtrak trains are fabulous at their jobs. You've met some of them already. I would go so far as to say that overall customer service onboard is better than it was as recently as 5-6 years ago. That doesn't mean it's perfect. There are still some sleeping car attendants who disappear once your train leaves the station or a dining car staff that can't seem to manage anything as simple as getting four salads to the same table at the same time or the person who has to overextend his or her authority. I'm glad the one over officious individual hasn't turned you off.....
You might want to contact Amtrak Customer Service and nicely report the incident on #50. Remind them that with the accomodation fares you were paying that you would expect to not be treated rudely. They may offer a travel voucher that would defray the cost of a future trip.
Judy McFarland Member # 4435
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I'm with the "no visitors" crowd. We pay a steep premium for sleeper space & part of the allure is the lack of traffic through the car. In my experience there ihas always been a sign discouraging visitors on the entry to the sleepers. There are ample photos, floor plans, and dimensions on the Internet for the curious.
sbalax Member # 2801
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I agree with Judy on this one. The signs are posted and the announcements made for a reason but there are always a few who want to push it. There is the security issue of not being able to lock your accommodation when not in it and also the question of having paid for the privacy. I feel the same way about the various cabins on aircraft. I miss the heavy curtain that used to divide First from Economy/Coach. The new Federally mandated curtains are referred to by flight attendants as the "Frederick's of Hollywood" model.
Frank in dark but still warm SBA
RRRICH Member # 1418
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I agree that coach passenegrs should NOT be allowed to randomly wander through sleeper cars unaccompanied. But I am with Granny that, when you pay the high premium price for a sleeper room, you should be allowed to have a guest in your room (and your room only) now and then, as long as the guest doesn't harass or bother you or anyone else.
palmland Member # 4344
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It seems to me a sad commentary on Amtrak that even a rudimentary device such as a card key system is beyond their ability to manage/maintain. But, probably very true.
A far more practical solution would be for Amtrak to give some basic hospitality training. Can you imagine a Marriott employee shouting at a guest if they did something against the rules?
As for that 'porter, call button' GBN mentions, many years ago I 'found' one in a scrap line of heavyweight sleepers. It now hangs on the door to our train room (along with some sleeper nameplates).
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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To invite a guest to your room is your business; hey, the Barbizon Plaza allows it nowadays.
Provided it was not being used, to show off the public shower is also OK, however, to show off sold space, occupied or otherwise notwithstanding, such as a Bedroom in the car is 'out of bounds".
Just my thoughts as I outlined at Dr. Hale's blog based on a personal experience.
Train Granny Member # 30118
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I totally agree, GBN! The way I see it, it should be OK to show my friend anything that I have PAID for access to! Any bedroom or roomette (sold or unsold) would be off limits because I have not paid for access to it! The shower, however, I did pay for access to!
TwinStarRocket Member # 2142
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A decade or 2 ago on the Southwest Chief in the slow season (Feb), the conductor came through the coaches offering to show the unsold bedrooms to folks. He sold quite a few at a pretty good discount (me included). I thought that was a great idea to get some revenue out of unsold space. I never saw it happen again. It should be encouraged.
Train Granny Member # 30118
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That's not something that you would see often! Was that your introduction to sleeping cars?
notelvis Member # 3071
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Similar to Twin Star's story -
About 10 years ago I had a trip booked flying to Salt Lake City (RT) and then catching the California Zephyr on to Sacramento.
I had a roomette booked for the westbound train but just could not bring myself to spend another $200 for the eastbound roomette given that I would be getting off the train in the middle of the night returning to Salt Lake City.
Two or three days before starting this trip, I had a call from Amtrak saying that they had unsold rooms on #6 the day I was traveling and wondering if I would be interested in upgrading to a roomette for 50% off the regular accomodation charge.
I was already a bit concerned about whether I would get any sleep on the eastbound train and jumped at the chance.
Train Granny Member # 30118
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Well, at least that's two examples of Amtrak trying to bring in the $$$. I'm glad to hear that they did that! (I doubt they do it now. What do you think?)
But, then, I haven't seen many unsold rooms, either.
TwinStarRocket Member # 2142
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No Marty, that was not my introduction to sleeping cars. I had occasionally used sleepers even in my younger days of mostly coach travel. Some were prior to the first Superliners, where a variety of old sleeping cars from pre-Amtrak days were used.
My honeymoon in 1977 was in a transcontinental sleeper that was transferred from the now discontinued National Limited (NY to KC) to the Southwest Chief at KC. It sat in KC for a few hours and could be used like a hotel room. We only took it from Missouri to New Mexico.
Once a sleeping car attendant on a westbound Zephyr trip offered us an upgrade on our eastbound return trip that we had already booked in coach. He happened to be working the date we returned, and sold us Bedroom A for cash. I don't think that was legal but it was cheap.
mr williams Member # 1928
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quote:Originally posted by TwinStarRocket: A decade or 2 ago on the Southwest Chief in the slow season (Feb), the conductor came through the coaches offering to show the unsold bedrooms to folks. He sold quite a few at a pretty good discount (me included). I thought that was a great idea to get some revenue out of unsold space. I never saw it happen again. It should be encouraged.
Although unsold sleeper space seems to be a rarity nowadays I presume the conductor does still come around selling it off cheap to coach passengers if any exists? In Sept 2003 that happened on the second night on the SWC into LAUS. As it cost Amtrak nothing more than a breakfast (served at 5.00am which very few passengers got up for anyway!) it was surely better to fill up the spaces for $50 each than leave them empty.
smitty195 Member # 5102
posted
There are conductors that I personally know of who will not sell an open bedroom to a coach passenger. It's because they are too lazy and don't want to do any of the paperwork/ticketing/money exchange that's involved in it. And if you read trip reports from people over the years, you will see a trend of coach passengers asking the conductor if they can upgrade to a sleeper, and the conductor will either totally blow them off or will say something like, "Check with me after (fill in the blank with a city)". After that time, it's usually in the middle of the night and the passenger just says "Forget it!". And I know this is not supposed to happen, but if a room is available but the sleeping car attendant has taken it (even though they have Room 1), the conductor will not kick the attendant out so that the room can be sold. They just look the other way. I have seen this happen A LOT over the years. Same thing on trains with no Trans/Dorm---such as on train 28 (Empire Builder) between Portland and Pasco. There is no "office" or space for the conductor, so he/she will take an open sleeping accommodation. If a coach passenger wants to buy it, NOPE, they ain't getting it because the conductor wants it as his "office".
Amtrak really should do on-board marketing of up-selling these rooms to passengers.
dilly Member # 1427
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I agree that random non-sleeper passengers should be discouraged from strolling unaccompanied through the sleeping cars. That's why the sign is on the car door.
But during daylight hours, on several occasions, I've taken a coach passenger or two for a tour. My guests weren't loudmouths, drunk, or disruptive (which is more than I can say for some sleeper passengers). Plus the visits were brief -- they didn't hang out in my roomette, but were simply curious.
No car attendant (when we encountered one) has ever had a problem with it. And frankly, that's a good p.r. move.
As for security: It's unrealistic to presume that the population of riff-raff on any given train will be limited to the coach travelers -- or that every sleeper passenger is a fine upstanding citizen.
A petty thief, violent felon, or corporate office worker with an expensive drug habit can buy a roomette or bedroom ticket with no questions asked. Chances are, they'll look relatively "normal." And that includes kleptomaniac teenagers traveling with their parents.
Whenever you're about to leave your room unoccupied, always hide your valuables or take them with you.
-----------------
TwinStarRocket Member # 2142
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What Smitty said about conductors not wanting to sell sleeper space has also been my experience most of the time. They told me to sit in my assigned coach seat and he would find me. Hours later no one had showed up. One on the eastbound Chief even told me to wait in my seat til after La Junta and he would get me a room. As a foamer, I know we changed conductors in La Junta. I've also been told they were sold out when I could see later that half the rooms were not occupied for the overnight I wanted. I don't even try anymore.
But it would really benefit Amtrak to get revenue from all available space.
mr williams Member # 1928
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One thing that us Brits like about visiting America is that the standards of service are so much higher. OK, so there is a much higher reliance on tips so if you have an attitude you are going to stay poor, but reading the above posts, and from my own experience, some Amtrak employees really do seem to be in the wrong job. I have come across many Amtrak employees who were dilligent and caring, but many who have what we call the "civil service" mentality, I don't know what you call it, but you probably have an expression for government/state employees who seem to be answerable to know one.
Does nobody check on these things? Does nobody in management look at the figures and think "Geez, all those empty sleepers went unsold that night, I wonder why?". Does Amtrak not have "mystery shoppers" riding the trains to report back on what's happening?
notelvis Member # 3071
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Evidenced by personal experience and trip reports here and on other boards from long-time passenger train afficianados, there has been marked improvement in Amtrak's level of onboard customer service across the board over the last 3-4 years...... enough so that it's evident someone somewhere is making an effort.
Of course there are still those who cause one to wonder why they got into this line of work in the first place.
RRRICH Member # 1418
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On a couple occasions "back in the old days" as a young coach traveler on AMTRAK, I occasionally would ask the conductor if any upgrades to sleeper would be available, and I was told on a couple occasions to "check with me after [name a city]" or "check with [name a name] -- he comes on at [name the city]" -- of course, the city which was named would inevitably be a crew change point, so I "checked with" whoever I was told to after the city, and of course the new conductor had no idea whatsoever what I was talking about, or who I talked to previously.
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