Maybe posted earlier, but the December issue of TRAINS magazines reports a change in the Starlight. Amtrak plans to replace the lower-level video arcade with business class seating.
I say a good move. I would also like the Starlight to replace the "beverage bar", in the parlor car, with a light meal serving bistro for sleeping car passengers. Have it open until late hours as an alternative to the dining car.
Richard
Posted by Jerome Nicholson (Member # 3116) on :
A perk of the business class seating would be use of the PPC without having to splurge for a room. Great if you're not riding overnight. Alas, there's no money in the budget to convert the cars yet. The article outlines a lot of improvements to LD service; extra cars on the Auto Train, Thruway bus to Winnipeg for the Empire Builder, Thruway bus service to Denver for the Southwest Chief, to natchez for the City of new Orleans. But they all are pipe dreams because of lack of money, lack of equipment, or in the case of the SWC, not knowing if the train will even exist soon.
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
Would it really cost anything to convert that lower level to biz class seating? I guess it depends on what Amtrak's definition is of business class. All they need to do is remove the stuff that's in that lower level area now, and replace it with standard coach seats. Amtrak's coach seats and legroom on Superliners is equivalent to domestic First Class and Int'l Business Class on the airlines (and oftentimes roomier than some airlines).
So I guess what I'm wondering is this: Is Amtrak's definition of biz class a coach seat in an 'exclusive' seating area? Or is it a special seat that comes with extra amenities?
I'll have to think about the PPC idea for those passengers. On a normal summer day, there are four sleepers and they are always completely booked, plus there are passengers in the trans/dorm as well. I don't think the PPC can handle any more passengers. It might make that car uncomfortable and too crowded.
Posted by Vincent206 (Member # 15447) on :
I would likely buy a Business Class seat on the Starlight for a trip between Seattle and Portland. I'm guessing that there are folks who would also spend the money on a trip between LA and San Jose. The current Business Class supplement between Seattle and Portland is $17. I would gladly spend that much for access to the PPC (and I wouldn't expect a free lunch, either).
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jerome Nicholson: But they all are pipe dreams because of lack of money, lack of equipment, or in the case of the SWC, not knowing if the train will even exist soon.
What's that all about then?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Why dilute your revenue yield offering Parlour Car access for a Business Class fare?
Mr. Smith notes that when Starlight has four Sleeper lines as well as some overflow into the T-Dorm, the Parlour is mighty busy at such time. If someone wants their "luxojourney", make 'em pay for a Day Roomette. It is my understanding that such space is usually available on the SJC-LAX segment.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
I concur, GBN. On our CS trip this summer the PPC was unpleasantly full for most of our trip from SLO to EMY.
Why not just upgrade the lower level of one of the coaches as BC. Maybe install 2/1 seating and invite them to wine tasting to justify the added fare.
Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
Whatever happend to the plan for a "coffee bar", to sell Starbuck-like coffee, in the Pacific Parlor Car? I always hoped Starbucks would contract for a caffee bar on most Amtrak LD trains. I want to try their 7 dollar coffee.
Richard
Posted by Vincent206 (Member # 15447) on :
I don't think an espresso machine would be profitable on LD trains. Those machines are pretty pricey and it takes a good amount of skill to make a decent latte or cappuccino. If the barista isn't trained properly, the results will be dreadful. Amtrak should spend the time to learn to serve an excellent cup of drip coffee, however. Quality beans, freshly ground and brewed in a machine that is properly maintained will produce an excellent cup of coffee at very little cost.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
I can attest from personal experience that Starbucks coffee tastes like something scraped from old oil sumps.
Posted by Mike Smith (Member # 447) on :
Henry, you think Starbucks tastes that good???
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
One has to wonder why Henry has tried the dregs of old oil sumps!
Mind you, there was something on the radio a few weeks ago about car mechanics being known for tasting odd fluids, including oil leaks.
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
The specialty coffee machines that Amtrak purchased for the PPCs cost $10,000 per machine. They bought five of them. They are a European-made brand that are specifically for use on a train. Most European trains use this exact same machine. So, what's the catch??? Well......you have to use a special cleaner and it MUST be cleaned and maintained properly. Now just try to imagine for a moment----an AmClerk in some obscure office back east trying to figure out how to order a European cleaner for a machine that they know nothing about. Combine that with AmEmployees who really don't give a *#&% about following proper cleansing procedure, add in some complex controls to make various types of coffee drinks, and what's the outcome? The outcome is that you now have $50,000 worth of coffee machines sitting around broken, dirty, and a big waste of money. And THAT is the exact story on what happened. Very predictable from the get-go. I told this to Brian Rosenwald while on-board the official "Re-launch" of the Starlight, and he gave me a confused look as if to say, "What do you mean it won't work???". He's a nice guy who has done lots of great things, but I don't think he ever understood the limitations of the employees.
Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
Smitty...thanks for the in-depth analysis. Interesting.
I can remember coffee on several pre-Amtrak trains..always excellent. Why can't they, at least, brew coffee at that level? The stuff in the little nook, at the end of your sleeping car, is pretty bad.
By the way, it has been said that the cardboard cup holder, at Starbucks, costs more than the coffee inside the cup. Perhaps an exception, now, is their 7 dollar coffee. I do like, however, Starbuck coffee. I think a few Amtrak stations have a Starbucks in or near the train sation but I'm not sure which stations.
Richard
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
The coffee that used to be used in the sleepers was Green Mountain coffee. Good stuff. They switched to something else, which is not very good. And Starbucks?? Blah!! It tastes so incredibly bitter and burnt to me.
Posted by DeeCT (Member # 3241) on :
Smitty, A thorough cleaning of the coffeemaker would be a help. (That would require a sink much deeper than the one in that nook or in the bathroom across the hall.) I also agree that Green Mountain is way better than Starbucks.
Posted by Mike Smith (Member # 447) on :
The last train I was on used the red bag Community coffee. And why would anyone clean a percolating coffee pot??? You ruin the flavor by cleaning it!
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Let's hear it for Green Mountain. That's my son's account with his ad firm. And of course I agree it is much better than Starbuck's. Amtrak should at least serve this on the Vermonter and at least one of its stops has a GM coffee shop in the station. HQ is in Waterbury/Stowe.
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
I didn't know Green Mountain had its own coffee shops! That must be an east coast thing, because we don't have them out here. However, I do go to Bed Bath and Beyond to purchase those little K-Cups for my Keurig coffee brewer. Good stuff!
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Smitty, I think it's just a Vermont thing, and maybe only at this store.
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
Oh okay, thanks. I'll bet it smells realllllllly good when you walk in the door.
Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
I tried to find Green Mountain coffee at Safeway..not there. I took Smitty's advice and went to Bed/Bath and found the little Green Mountain pods. I will have to see if it's better than Starbuck's coffee.
Richard
Posted by cubzo (Member # 4700) on :
A lot of large coffee roasters over roast their beans. As the volatile oils burn off of the beans they take much of the flavor with them leaving bitterness behind.
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
yukon: That's great! I think you will enjoy it very much. They have different "blends", and the one I prefer is the same one that the Amtrak sleepers used, which is "Nantucket Blend". Let us know how you like it.
cubzo: So that explains the bitterness of Starbucks. I don't understand how they managed to become so famous and popular. When I walk into a Starbucks (with someone else---I never go on my own), that burnt coffee smell is not very inviting in my opinion. Much different when walking into a Peet's, or even a Dunkin Donuts.
Posted by TBlack (Member # 181) on :
Smitty, Why do you have to have a coffee maker specifically for use on a train. Why can't you use the same machine that you use at home? What's different about a train? Surely the motion isn't enough to upset the process.
Tom
Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
I ask the same question as Mr. Black.
Smitty, I got the Green Mountain Coffee called "Dark Magic". I don't have a pod coffee maker, so I emptied 3 pod cups into my coffee machine and filled it to the 2.5 cup range with water. It came out very strong and bitter..maybe I made it too strong. I didn't like it. Next time I will try "Nantucket Blend". They also had something called "Breakfast Blend"..has anyone tried that one?
For a very mild, non-bitter coffee, here is a link to "Elephant Coffee". At $50 per cup and for other reasons, I think I will let it pass.
I took the advise to go to Bed, Bath, & Beyond, bought the Green Mountain Nantucket Blend and it DOES taste like Amtrak coffee!!!! It is very expensive, $12 for 18 cups of coffee!
Looks like I have some occasional coffee for work. No way will I spend this much on my regular morning breakfast coffee (2.5 pounds of beans for $14 is good enough).
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Mike, if you are buying the pod coffee for Keurig type coffee makers, it is very expensive, although certainly convenient. For that reason, since we drink a full pot each day, we buy the bag coffee direct from GM and their coffee club . It costs us $7.76 per bag (plus shipping) for the Nantucket Blend and two bags lasts us 5-6 weeks.
We have tried the breakfast blend and it's way too weak for us.
Posted by Mike Smith (Member # 447) on :
Thanks, Palmland! I really do not want to join a coffee club, but I can make an exception.
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
Ah, I did not know about the coffee club and being able to buy Nantucket Blend in bags. Thanks for the tip.
yukon: Yes, the Breakfast Blend is weak and in my opinion is not as good as the AmCoffee (aka: Nantucket Blend). It's funny, the first few times I had it at home, I felt like I was in an Amtrak sleeper. Once you taste it, you'll instantly recognize the taste and you will KNOW you've got the right AmCoffee.
As far as why a special coffee machine for a train??? I have no clue! I didn't even think to ask Mr. Rosenwald why that's the case. It must have something "special" about it since the darn thing was 5000 bucks per machine. I wish I had an answer to your question, but unfortunately, I do not.
Posted by Mike Smith (Member # 447) on :
$14 for a 12 oz bag of coffee is EXPENSIVE!!!
Looks like it will be a Saturday or Sunday treat for TZ & I.
My normal brew is $14 for a 40oz bag of beans from Sam's Club (Columbian breakfast blend).
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
What's wrong with my $7.49 a can of Folgers at Wally World? Seems like nine of those take care of me for a year. Darn, had to order some replacement decanters this year from Mr. Coffee.
Grief; coffee is coffee - but lest not anyone say "wine is wine'.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
I'm witcha on the Folgers, GBN. My specialty is Half-Caff. My cardiologist limits me to one cup of java a day so I figured two of Half-Caff wouldn't be cheating.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
GBN, not a thing wrong with Folgers. But that is a good analogy. We feel as strongly about coffee as you do wine. I dare say Yellow Tail (our daily table wine) wouldn't be your top varietal. And of course it's nice to support our son too.
Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
Mr.Norman and Henry: as much as I appreciate your acumen regarding train and railroad subjects, I wouldn't want to go to a coffee pub with you. Folgers?...you've got to be kidding! Folgers vs. Starbucks or any premium coffee is like Volkswagen vs. Maserati!
I tried Yellow Tail after Consumer Reports gave it a great rating. I would not buy it again. You can get many Califorinia wines at an inexpensive price, and they are better than many other more expensive wines bottled elsewhere. I guess I am showing my No. Calif. bias. One of the few positive things I can say, these days, about living in Calif.
Richard
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
I agree about the coffee thing. Folgers?? No thank you. I'm not a "Starbucks snob", just a coffee snob.
I am not a wine drinker (or alcohol, for that matter, save once in a blue moon), but I agree with Consumer Reports not always getting things right. I've been a subscriber for probably 25 years now, and I have sort of learned what to trust and not trust. I'm a car nut, and one of CR's major complaints about every Mercedes Benz vehicle is "complicated controls". What a joke! I guess the controls are complicated if you've lived in a cave for the last 50 years, but besides that, they are NOT complicated. As a matter of fact, they are about as easy as they come. But look at a CR review of any Mercedes Benz, and in the "Lows" column, you will always see that note. They are way off-base on that.
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
Since I retired, I seem to wander into various local independent cafes most every morning for coffee. Mugs only! None of that paper cup nonsense. Also good for hand warming this time of year.
Most of the independent cafes also buy from local independent coffee distributors, who seem to also have the best coffee. Peace Coffee is my favorite. They deliver by bicycle.
I also detest Starbuck's, and I loved the Green Mountain Amtrak coffee.
Posted by Mike Smith (Member # 447) on :
Folgers is for when you cannot get any good coffee; it will do in a pinch. I prefer something more robust. And it aint starbucks!!!
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Perhaps we should all pick up our coffee cups and return to a discussion on Amtrak.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Starbucks? ain't that the place I go when out of town to get my New York Times?
Funny though, the last time I set foot in a Starbucks was this past September in Fredericksburg VA. After going to Mickey D's for Breakfast (Marriott Fairfield's is so bad that I'll just pass on it; there's a Courtyard downtown, but this Fairfield is closer to my friends in Woodford along VA 2 and on the perimeter of AP Hill), I then drove to Starbucks for my Times. Didn't have one, but a really nice lady working there (what do they call them; Barrista or something?) said just go South on US1 to a Wawa and they will have it.
They did; no need to set foor in a Starbucks anymore in Fredericksburg.
Actually, there is a Starbucks here in town; no "tables with a view" as at Quinn's - my place. I've never purchased a comestible product there; only a Times and Journal once or twice when a substitute carrier "messes up".
Finally Mr. Palmland, I find Yellow Tail and other Australian varietals in that price range to be quite drinkable and represent good value
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
Here's a vote for Menage a Trois red and the same brand in white. Light and oh so drinkable, and easy on the wallet.
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
There's really a wine brand called Menage a Trois?
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
Yes. They're blends of three varietals, hence the name. The company sales website says: "Ménage à Trois examines what happens when you put three attractive, single, young grapes in one exquisite bottle. It's fun; it's exciting; it's legal in most states . . . "
And is good for a chuckle when one serves them to dinner guests.
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
I just had a Polygamy Porter ("Why Have Just One?") beer in Utah.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Mr. Twin Star, what's wrong with a Bud Lite. I think that is what I had when I last had a beer in this life - maybe five or so years ago (a social situation where, absent being a non-drinker, it would have been rude to decline).
I don't know if Utah still only allows "near beer", "Roosevelt beer", or otherwise beer with a 3.2% alcohol content as was the case when I was stationed at Hill AFB 1968-69. I think one would get sick on that stuff before ever getting drunk.
Otherwise, on my last trip to Utah during 2010, I found my beverage of choice to be quite available; only exception seemed to be there was no lobby bar at Abravanel Hall, unlike any other performing arts venue I have had occasion to visit.
Posted by TwinStarRocket (Member # 2142) on :
We were in Park City (a ski town), where the booze is just as strong as anywhere else in the US. Our first stop there was a bar that distilled their own whiskey on site. There was nothing unusual I noticed about liquor regulations, and there were many bars per block.
Sorry, but my primary dislikes in beer are (1) any Lite, and (2) Budweiser. My favorites are Fat Tire and Coors. Even Sam Adams doesn't impress, but I enjoy most craft beers. So on Amtrak it is Corona by default (no other choices I like). To each our own I guess.
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
The Coast Starlight used to serve "regional" beer and wine. It was supposed to represent the areas that the train traveled through. They did this with the diner menu as well. This was back when Amtrak had the "Superior Service" guarantee (and logo), shortly after the PPCs were totally refurbished and re-introduced. It was during this time period that I discovered "Labatt's Blue" in the lounge car. One of the best beers I've ever had. I don't see it in stores around here---anyone know if that beer is still around? I want to take a guess and say that this was in the early 90's when they were selling this beer on-board 11 and 14.
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
Nothing to be sorry about, TSR. I must admit I do miss a good English ale, chilled to be cool but still flavorful. Not this super chilled (to get rid of the taste), hyper carbonated (no idea why) stuff like Budweiser. Thankfully there is a lot more choice of darker and flavorful beers now in the US than there was when I first started visiting back in the 90s.
One to try if you see it is Wells' Banana Bread Beer. It's dark, has a distinct banana flavor, and I love it. Sometimes you see it as an import, other times as a "brewed in the UK, bottled in the US" kind of thing. I've seen a few random places selling it but http://www.warehouseliquors.com/ in Chicago had a good selection - a chance find on a rail convention to the city a couple of months ago.
Posted by Henry Kisor (Member # 4776) on :
Smitty, Labatt Blue reputedly is the No. 1 selling beer in Canada. We see it often in Upper Michigan stores. I prefer Heineken and Stella myself.
Posted by RRRICH (Member # 1418) on :
My local bar here in Grayling, MI (northern Lower Peninsula), has Labatt Blue, and that is usually what I order when I go there.
Posted by cubzo (Member # 4700) on :
I miss the days when the CS used to serve Stone's Arrogant *******. An aggressive hoppy IPA..
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
Ah, so Labatt's is still around? Wish I could get my hands on some. I really enjoyed it.
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