From Marriott Downtown at City Creek Salt Lake City--
Within the past half hour, I have returned from making a round trip 'joyride' SLC - Provo on the Frontrunner South.
Just as I was with my Frontrunner North made during April 2010, am I ever impressed, and, I'm sorry, but Frontrunner makes any other rail transit system with which I've had experience 'look like out of the Dark Ages'.
The equipment simply looks immaculate in its R W & B livery; so far, although I must wonder for how long, the trains have escaped the fate of UTA busses and TRAX light rail of having shrink wrap advertising around the vehicles.
The dedicated UTA track is just that; nowhere is UP/D&RGW track used; in fact the Train Host (Conductor) said she was not UP Rules Qualified. However, on Sundays, like much of this region regarding anything, there is no service, and UP will make use of UTA tracks - up Train & Engine must be 'RQ' on the UTA property.
I was riding in the Lower Level of the Bombardier bi-level; the ride was exceptionally smooth and it appears max speed is 79 (I really did not wish to bother the Conductrix with a bunch of railfan chatter). At Provo, MP S-44.3 (miles are S or N of SLC). I never alighted the train at Provo. Just think, at Provo they swept out the train and touched up the interior windows after its 80 mile journey from Ogden.
All told, on my Senior one day pass, I could have ridden the entire UTA system - mode notwithstanding, but I just wanted to retreat here to the hotel, have a Chardonnay at the bar (sure couldn't do THAT 'back in my 68-69 day' around these parts). I still am backlogged with newspapers to read. Tonight is the Utah Symphony (this hotel is catty corner to the Orchestra's venue).
I'll be starting home (auto) after the Mormon Tabernacle broadcast tomorrow.
A final thought, like a lot of other regions, Denver still 'talks the talk' with (real) rail transit, but SLC has 'walked the walk'.
Posted by Vincent206 (Member # 15447) on :
I'm surprised to hear that the lower level of the BBL seemed smooth. When I ride on Sounder BBL equipment, I prefer the upper level just to get away from the squeaks and squawks of the trucks and suspension. In fact, compared to a BBL, the Talgos are smooth as glass and quiet as a mouse.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Had no idea UTA had that much track. Sounds like they have their act together. Almost enough to make you want to be a Mormon. Will you make it to Promontory?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
From Marriott Downtown at City Creek Salt Lake City--
I made up to Promontory during my 2010 visit; I also went up there when I was stationed at Hill AFB 68-69. However, at that time, it was simply a stone to note the place.
During '10, the reenactment was not being performed, but they invited all interested to drive up to the shops to look at Jupiter and 119. However, I did not want to drive my auto over a gravel road.
But guess what, on this trip I wanted to see Granger WY, where the OSL diverges from the Overland. That involved a gravel road. I never went more than 10mph and was less than happy when somebody came the other way at 50 in a beat up pickup. I couldn't find any damage on Red Lex.
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: However, on Sundays, like much of this region regarding anything, there is no service, and UP will make use of UTA tracks - up Train & Engine must be 'RQ' on the UTA property.
What does "RQ" mean?
I've never ridden this system, but when I did a VERY long drive a few years ago (Tucson, AZ to Saskatoon, SK), we passed through SLC and I saw the Frontrunner flying past the stopped traffic on the freeway. I was surprised at how clean the equipment looked.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
Rules Qualified
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
quote:Originally posted by George Harris: Rules Qualified
Thanks.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
From The Hotel Denver; Glenwood Springs CO
I have to say, for many around here, I can see how this property could have appeal, but for me not too much.
The hotel has been magnificently renovated, but still, driving up to the hotel following sat/nav's directions, one finds access is blocked account some road construction. The main access is presently through an employee enterance in a back alley - uh, 'not what you expect' from a hotel with a $150 room rate. Further, checking in I now find that there is no restaurant in the hotel 'under renovation' was the apparent truthful answer. So it was out to the street for Dinner. The desk recommended a steakhouse just down the street named Juicy Lucy's. Their steak was really not all that 'juicy'; being a tourist town - tourist prices - 'and they don't take American Express'. Next I went into the place named The Pullman immediate adjacent to the hotel, and actually stumbled into a convivial gang at the bar. This place had some kind of 'fusion' menu and featured 'craft' beers - not too much of a draw for a guy who last had a Bud Lite maybe three years ago. But their Chardonnay was quite drinkable. I left about 8PM for the hotel.
I had one of the railfan rooms (204 and 304), which I bet will have a premium rate come 'the season'. But there really was no action to speak of until about 5AM when a coal train stopped in front of the Depot. While the hotel has tried to sound deaden the room, it was no match for two C-44's.
Oh well, it has been an experience; but I'm simply more comfortable staying at major brand chain properties where 'the best surprise is no surprise'.
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: From The Hotel Denver; Glenwood Springs CO
Not always a good idea to broadcast the fact that your house is empty and you're 1000+ miles away.
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: I had one of the railfan rooms (204 and 304), which I bet will have a premium rate come 'the season'. But there really was no action to speak of until about 5AM when a coal train stopped in front of the Depot. While the hotel has tried to sound deaden the room, it was no match for two C-44's.
Last I heard there were only a half dozen trains a day out that way - and that was the east side of the Divide, so it's quite possible some of those go to/from the coal branch that leaves the mainline and heads north before Glenwood Springs.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
From The Hotel Denver Colorado Springs--
Actually, Mr. Mayo, there are painters working at my house. I guess this practice of mine has been a holdover from days before people had a computer with them, which I still do not.
Just as I was checking out, there was some BNSF 'action' a WB. It seems as if the BNSF exercises their trackage rights over the D&RGW more than I would have expected.
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
And they guard your house at 4am presumably. Ignore sensible advice if you must but don't come crying to us when it all goes wrong.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Back in the barn, and the painters are 'about 66% done (well, that's what I've paid them on the contract). The trains Mr. Mayo notes, leave the Main Line at Dotsero for the line to Craig, along that line there is coal and maybe, some oil.
The Old Main, what I saw of it, is there but decrepit; obviously if traffic grows as it has to date during the 'rail renaissance' there could be a future use of the line to handle traffic - Tennessee Pass notwithstanding.
Of interest, UP/DRGW mile posts are measured Denver Pueblo Tennessee Pass Dotsero Ogden (even if DRGW SLC Ogden is abandoned). On my trip, I observed MP's near Soldier Summit in the range of 795.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Dotsero has fond memories for me. I was dating a young girl then, maybe our fourth date. A ride on the CZ to Dotsero (station stop of Bond, CO), return on the Yampa Valley mail was a test of our relationship. Fortunately she loved it - maybe the CZ french toast helped. Of course that young girl is now my wife. Still young at heart.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Here is my review of The Hotel Denver as it appears at Trip Advisor Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
I note that the reviewer immediately below GBN spent two night at the Hotel Denver with his girlfriend and rates the property 5-star (or dots!) in every category except 'sleep quality'.
Posted by dns8560 (Member # 15184) on :
I heard a rumor early on that Frontrunner construction crews uncovered a dinosaur carcass, and some government research scientists extracted DNA from it and created a living, breathing behemoth that somehow escaped and terrorized the good-natured, wholesome residents of a small town on the border of Minnesota and Idaho where the top secret research facility was located, or something. This high school football player Chip and his cheerleader girlfriend Beth were the only ones who made it out alive. They were at the local Drive-In Theater in Chip's grandpa's prized mint green '57 Chevy when it all started. Evidently the whole fracas was covered up. I guess a disused UP branch was fairly torn up during the melee.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Dns- Amtrak management could use some of your imagination. No doubt the creature is occupying the handicap room on the CZ and headed east.
Posted by gibg (Member # 2565) on :
Mr. Norman: When you first posted that you were considering a night at the Hotel Denver in Glenwood Springs, I sent you several PM's (which you obviously did not receive). I wanted you to know that there are now two (2) Marriott properties in GSC -- a Courtyard and a Residence Inn. Neither is particularly convenient as they are adjacent to each other and are located about a mile west of downtown and next to a large shopping mall, and are on the opposite side of the river from the interstate.
I also knew that the Hotel Denver was contemplating renovation and wanted to pass that along. I apologize that the information never reached you.
Juicy Lucy's is indeed pricey but extremely popular. The Pullman is relatively new and seems to have a great "vibe." (The Brewpub in the Hotel Denver is also extremely popular.)
With sincere apologies to you and Mr. Palmland, Dotsero is where the Moffat Tunnel Route joins the Tennessee Pass route, about 20 miles or so east of GSC. The junction you were referring to is Orestod ("Dotsero" spelled backwards), which was also a former station (called "Bond") and a crew change point. It is where the old D&SL line takes off for the Yamps valley and Craig. There is literally nothing there anymore -- everything gone.
I sincerely hope that on your next trip west (another four years?) in Red Lex, you will grant me the honor of taking you to dinner in one of the many good restaurants in GSC. I very much enjoyed your take on Salt Lake City and wonderful transit progress in that area. It is an incredible city with an unprecedented amount of support for the arts, as well.
Gib Gardner Old Snowmass, Colorado
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Thank you Mr. Gardner for your kind thoughts.
Jucy's had been favorably mentioned by others here, so I was surprised it was overpriced for what I thought was a mediocre steak (at their price level, the quality should have been approching Ruth's). Their minimal selection of wines by the glass was also a 'turn off'.
Oh, 'and they don't take American Express'.
Posted by smitty195 (Member # 5102) on :
Ahhhh, you mentioned Ruth's (Ruth's Chris Steakhouse). My absolute favorite!!! They have the BEST bone-in filet mignon that I've ever had. Something about cooking with the bone still in just makes it so juicy and tasty. It's rather expensive (I think it's $65), but WOW it is good. Best steak I've ever had---I can't imagine anyone ever topping that. If you like steak, save up and treat yourself one night to a bone-in filet from Ruth's Chris. You won't be sorry!
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Smitty, had just that - the Cowboy Steak - this past Saturday at Ruth's in Sandy Springs/Atlanta.
Bone-In is indeed worth the extra in flavor over the bone you cannot eat.
Trust me, Andy, Jucy is not even in the Minors when compared to Ruth's - even if Jucy's prices are 'sort of getting into' the Majors.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
quote:Originally posted by gibg:
With sincere apologies to you and Mr. Palmland, Dotsero is where the Moffat Tunnel Route joins the Tennessee Pass route, about 20 miles or so east of GSC. The junction you were referring to is Orestod ("Dotsero" spelled backwards), which was also a former station (called "Bond") and a crew change point. It is where the old D&SL line takes off for the Yamps valley and Craig. There is literally nothing there anymore -- everything gone.
Gib Gardner Old Snowmass, Colorado
No apologies necessary. Gib. Orestod it is (of course that's Dotsero spelled backwards, I guess since it's at the other end of the cut off). And I believe Dotsero is pronounced dot-zero for its milepost location? We checked it out on our last CZ trip last year, and, as you said - nothing standing. Our long ago trip on the Yampa Valley was better than the CZ (the 1967 version) as we returned to Denver in a January snow.
As for GBN's steak recommendation, my favorite is any hunk of meat cooked on a campfire grill, with a bottle of wine nearby.
Posted by gibg (Member # 2565) on :
Mr.Palmland: In June, 1949, I rode the overnight train from Denver to Steamboat Springs. The consist was one coach and one 14-section sleeper, and two baggage units used (I think) for mail and express. It left Denver in the early evening (after dinner) rand arrived in SBS around 7 or 7:30 am. I think it made every stop -- and of course it was steam-powered. Although I got virtually no sleep (in a lower berth), it was a fabulous ride! I think it cost me less than $25. Bring back the Yampa Valley Mail!
Posted by dns8560 (Member # 15184) on :
I wish I didn't miss out on riding trains like Denver to Steamboat Spgs. What route did it take to get there? Are the tracks even still there?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Mr. Sommer, the tracks are very much there, as there is coal 'up in dar hills'. There maybe even be oil in the shale, but I'm not aware to what extent that has been developed. I should defer to Mr. Gardner on that point.
But in view of that there is now a kid playing with his Lionel somewhere in Council Bluffs (but location I believe 'undisclosed'), there is not much need for any facilities at that junction.
I've often wondered what plans there were to extend that line West of Craig (roundly along US40) to Salt Lake City, and whatever happened to such, but since coal predominantly moves Eastward (still the case even if the Asian export markets develop, as both mining and railroad interests hope will be the case, to offset losses here), any such plans are a 'nevah happen'.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Gib/GBN - you might enjoy this link on D&SL history.. Part fact, part fiction but interesting.
Looking at some old Official Guides, it appears there were two trains to Craig in 1948 - a daytime and nightime run. The day one was dropped in the late 40's and the night train continued with the one sleeper as you describe. In 1955, the sleeper was dropped and the schedule was changed to morning Denver departure and return in late afternoon. At that time it was given the Yampa Valley Mail name. When Amtrak was formed in 1971, the Rio Grande elected not to join and the train continued as the Rio Grande Zephyr complete with a dome observation car on the rear.
Here is a photo of Mr. Moffet's tunnel with the D&SL winding over the mountains above.
Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
Nice photo, Palmland.
I am trying to think of what holdovers, there were, after the formation of Amtrak in 1971. Besides the DRG, I came up with the Chicago, Rock Island & Pacific. What about the Montrealer? Also, was the GW Calif. Zephyr around, at least for a while, after 1971?
Richard
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Don't forget Mr. Claytor's Southern Crescent.
Posted by notelvis (Member # 3071) on :
One other worth noting - the Georgia Railroad offered mixed train service between Atlanta and Augusta for nearly a decade after A-Day in the form of a single rider coach tacked on to the rear of a regular freight train.
Regarding the Southern - note that the 'Southern Crescent' actually went to Amtrak on February 1, 1979. Southern's desire to operate an independent passenger train declined immensely upon W. Graham Claytor's retirement from the company in 1977.
Also, remember that Southern did have 4 passenger trains remaining on A-Day. In addition to the 'Southern Crescent', there was the Washington-Atlanta 'Piedmont', a nameless Washington-Lynchburg local which was a remnant of the old Birmingham Special, and a tri-weekly remnant of the old 'Asheville Special' from Asheville to a connection with the 'Piedmont' in Salisbury.
The original Railpax legislation stipulated that any railroad not signing on would have to maintain their existing passenger schedules through at least January 1, 1975 and Southern began their train off's shortly after that date. The Lynchburg local, which operated as a mixed train went first. The Piedmont was discontinued south of Charlotte in June 1975 before going adios altogether in November 1976, and the Asheville train succumbed in August 1975.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
David, if I recall there was some sort of tax break that the Georgia RR (SCL/CSX)got from the state for maintaining passenger service. That was one of those 'I need to ride it before it's gone' but of course never did. In the late 80's/early 90's there was a weekend excursion train that circled Atlanta pulled by steam (A&WP 290), part of it over the Georgia RR to Stone Mountain.
I would love to see 290 pulled out of the Southeastern RR Museum and restored by TVRM. Double heading that heavy pacific with 4501 would be quite a sight.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
Living in the DC area in the early 70's I can say this about the Southern's post Amtrak service:
The Crescent pulled out of DC with 4 green painted E units on the front, and usually somewhere between 15 and 20 streamlined cars. On peak travel days it ran it two sections with 3 E units on the front.
The number 2 train ran with streamlined coaches and some sort of meal serivce (I never rode it). It pulled out of DC with 4 to 6 streamlined cars behind 4 passenger service equipped F units. After leaving Alexandria it paused and had a lengthy string of piggybacks tacked on for the rest of the trip.
The remaining train pulled out of DC with 1 F unit and 1 non-streamlined coach. After leaving Alexandria it paused and had about 3 freight units tacked on the front and a long string of piggybacks tacked on the rear. At Lynchburg the lights in the coach were turned off, all passenger, very few the one time I rode it, put off and the train continued with the coach, I was told to Salisbury NC.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
To try and return this discussion to topic (of sorts), allow me to give a heads up that the major chains are tightening up with CANX policies - well at least is Marriott.
Booking a trip up to Madison for this Thursday, I first went to book at a full-service on the West side (Middleton), I was ready to click (would not have been the disaster as would have been the case with Ellis last Summer) and decided to chack CANX policy - never hurts. Low and behold I expected to see the usual 6PM day of arrival - nada - they wanted 24hrs; so everyone as the cops say, BOTL - be on the lookout.
I then checked a Courtyard within a mile of there and found they still offered a 6PM CANX. Since there is still some question if I will make the trip, guess where I chose to book?
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
There is a mysterious law. The more you pay for a hotel room the less you get. The moderate priced chains like Courtyard, Fairfield, HI Express, Hampton Inn you get free wifi, breakfast, parking, and same day cancellation. Not so at the 'full' service hotels. I guess the law of charge what the market will support applies. Too bad there isn't an expense account for those of us happily unemployed.
Since we do use Marriott's on a quick road trip overnight, your comments prompted me to check it out. Looks like no change at their moderate brands, full service looked to be 50-50 on same day cancellation. Ritz-Carlton, also under Marriott umbrella, cancellation was two days prior on the one I checked in CA.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Actually, Breakfast at Courtyard is 'pay'; their recent chainwide implementation of their 'Bistro' Food & Beverage format is a 'negative' to me in that the Breakfast experience - save the price - now more resembles MickeyD.
Possibly, Marriott's objective here is to establish greater 'brand differentiation', i.e. you want a full-service sit down Breakfast, you go to our full service brands', but somehow, I think they were looking to make better use of space that under the previous format was simply 'dead' space during the evening.
So far as the various 'econobrand free Breakfasts go', it is pretty much a case of 'you get what you pay for'. HIExpress I find to be perfectly edible, and their cinnamon buns are second only to the Cinnabon brand varietal. Hampton less so, and Fairfield so inedible that the last time I stayed at one of those (Fredericksburg 2012), I went up the street to a MickeyD. Brands such as Comfort, Super 8, Red Roof, 'can't help you there'.
On CANX, just like Amtrak and the airlines, as the economy recovers, demand is again favoring the suppliers. Look for more tighter CANX amongst all chains.
Finally, just as well I opted for Courtyard (6P arrival) v. Full Service Marriott (24hr) for this Madison junket, as it is still 'up in the air'.
Posted by PullmanCo (Member # 1138) on :
GBN:
You mentioned your service at Hill AFB back in the day.
Hill was one of the places HW Pullmans were stored "in case of national emergency" requiring extensive military transport in the late 50s/early 60s.
Were they still there by the time you were in the AF, or were they gone?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
There were USAF locomotives and DODX cars at Hill AFB during my tour Aug 68-Jan 69, but I never recall seeing any Pullmans.
Tobyhanna PA on the DL&W was another storage location.
