Guess it will be BNSF equipment. So maybe they'll have wine and cheese,,,
yukon11 Member # 2997
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The article didn't say who the "local officials" are, but I wonder if Mr. Boardman's meetings will include the governors of CO, KS, and NM, especially New Mexico. I wonder if some will point out that the SW Chief is an over 750 mile run.
If the Raton is a no-go and Transcon is inevitable, will there by a chance for a link with the Heartland Flyer?
Richard
Geoff Mayo Member # 153
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quote:Originally posted by yukon11: If the Raton is a no-go and Transcon is inevitable, will there by a chance for a link with the Heartland Flyer?
As I understand it, the Heartland Flyer would need to be extended northwards for that to happen. Not a bad thing, of course, except the timings may be a little inconvenient for those at the northern end - the southern end connects with the Texas Eagle. Having said that, I'd guesstimate that the HF could actually connect with both the TE and the SWC, seeing as the latter passes through Newton in both directions somewhere around the time the TE might get there.
DonNadeau Member # 61606
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Wine, cheese, and pillows!
Sadly, I wonder if this a political pacification/"we care" tour with no expectation of a positive outcome considering 1) the immense total cost of keeping service for one train on the line, and 2) the very few people who live between Albuquerque and Newton.
Of course, Matt Rose could always announce that BNSF now wants the northern trans-con as a "third track" to relieve pressure on the southern one, in spite of its grades. Think positively, I always say.
The Chief Member # 2172
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Update: Apparently not gonna be BNSF equipment but rather AMTK: 62049 Winter View 10021 Pacific Cape 10001 Beech Grove 10031 Ocean View 10004 American View
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When ATSF tried the "Super C", didn't it run on the passenger route through Raton, etc. I don't remember.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Regarding Mr. Chief's consist report, it would appear that the "to name or not to name" saga rolls on.
First, Amtrak refurbishes cars acquired from railroads and essentially retains railroad assigned names (notable exceptions: 8-6 Sleepers from Rock Island were named for points of interest in the North East-Central region "Wrigley Field" being one such. Also unnamed SP 10-6 Sleepers had "--Grove" names assigned).
Next, Amtrak assigns "natural attraction" names to the S-I Sleepers, but never applied them (several named for "luminaries").
After that, Amtrak names (and displays) S-II Sleepers named for States system wide. Bedroom S-II's assigned "Palm--" or "luminaries".
The V-I Sleepers arrive with names "--View".
Now the "Gunnmen" have "occupied" 60 Mass, badly needed refurbishments of the entire fleet begin; but the car names vanish, save a few from interior vestibule doors.
No changes occur during the "call me Alex" interregnum, but now in the Boardman era, first the 8400 Prototype V-I Diner shows up in revenue service named; now it appears the entire passenger carrying V-II fleet is to be named.
Tune in tomorrow for the next episode of "As 60 Mass Turns".
RRCHINA Member # 1514
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Mr. Harris, The Super 'C' ran via Amarillo on what is now called the Transcon. At that time there was very little double track from Belen to west of Emporia, KS; but many long CTC sidings were a needed assist.
RRCHINA Member # 1514
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I assume most of you know that after an inspection of the line a plan has been formulated to upgrade this route over ten years - with an estimated annual expenditure of $10M for a total of $100M.
BNSF and Amtrak have each committed $2M per year and KS, CO and NM are requested to make a similar contribution.
Really, if we throw out the political posturing, $2M per year from each State would be a rather small portion of their annual budget.
The Chief Member # 2172
posted George that's a great Q on the route. I couldn't find any deets on the Super C route. It ran from 1968 'til '76 after losing (another) USPS mail contract.
However, in the 1980s after dereg by Staggers, ATSF started the Q Trains, intermodal hot shots, often single shipper. Those early Qs initially linked KC and Phoenix, and Houston and Denver. La Junta was listed as a hub, so that routing indicates the (northern) Kansas PAX route.
Interestingly Santa Fe's Super C set record Chicago-LA of 34 hours 36 mins on inaugural run, 2'15" better than passenger record. It caught The Chief that trip, which departed Dearborn 4 hours earlier than Super C.
Motive power on initial run was FP45s, Nos. 100 and 104. These were red and yellow (Warbonnet) livery and from Santa Fe's initial FP45 (pax) order of 1967 (100-108). After Amtrak Day 1, some of the (longer [cowl] nosed) FP45s used on the final years of the Super Chief transferred to Super C use.
FP45s had 3600 HP. Awesome. Original diesels on Super Chief were also EMDs, experimentals, named EMC 1800 B-B because they were 1800 HP. Those guys were nicknamed Amos and Andy as they began the diesel browbeat of the arid southwest. Amtrak's P-42 Genesis are rated at 4250 HP and GE Evolutions max at 4400.
PullmanCo Member # 1138
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Kansas? Pony up $$$?
Ain't. Gonna. Happen.
Kansas is risking losing future jobs for the quality of education K-College or Vo Tech. The Legislature is about as conservative as you will find in the Nation.
No, they are not going to spend for Amtrak. There is one legislative season left before Boardman's deadline: January to June, 2015. Unless a huge political change happens in Topeka, write off Kansas.
That's my honest assessment.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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In support of Mr. Pullman's immediate thought, tax cuts are not an automatic panacea:
TOPEKA, Kan.—Two years ago, Kansas Gov. Sam Brownback laid out an aggressive program of tax cuts to turn this slow-growing state into a Texas-like economic powerhouse—and serve as a model for Republican leaders in other states.
So far, the results are serving as more of a warning than a beacon. Employment growth is below the national average, while Kansas faces plunging revenue, dwindling reserves and a rare debt downgrade.
The Republican governor says his policies need time to trickle through the economy and that other states should use his example to show how lower income taxes can spur private-sector expansion. But neighboring states that once thought of keeping pace with Mr. Brownback aren't mimicking the cuts—and are enjoying about the same job growth. Those that have cut taxes have done so more slowly and often with an eye on keeping tax revenue from slipping
And Gray Lady also spoke Today regarding Kansas taxation - or lack thereof:
The 2012 cuts were among the largest ever enacted by a state, reducing the top tax bracket by 25 percent and eliminating all taxes on business profits that are reported on individual income returns. (No other state has ever eliminated all taxes on these pass-through businesses.) The cuts were arrogantly promoted by Mr. Brownback with the same disproven theory that Republicans have employed for decades: There will be no loss of revenue because of all the economic growth!
“Our new pro-growth tax policy will be like a shot of adrenaline into the heart of the Kansas economy,” he wrote in 2012. “It will pave the way to the creation of tens of thousands of new jobs, bring tens of thousands of people to Kansas, and help make our state the best place in America to start and grow a small business.”
But the growth didn’t show up. Kansas, in fact, was one of only five states to lose employment over the last six months, while the rest of the country was improving. It has been below the national average in job gains for the three and half years Mr. Brownback has been in office. Average earnings in the state are down since 2012, and so is net growth in the number of registered businesses.
So there it is; coverage from sources that appeal to both our "wings" around here; i.e. Ocala Mike and Mr. Nicholson on one side, and 'The Smith Brothers" on the other.
Mr. Boardman says a possible Denver to Pueblo route in the next couple of years. If so, what about a connection with Pueblo and the SW Chief? Or, would it only be considered regional between Denver & Pueblo? Also, the need to save the Boy Scout Ranch connection. Hold that tiger!
Richard
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Love that reportin'
"Save the Chief! is the motto," said Mayor Joe Reorda of Trinidad. That is what Amtrak President and CEO Joseph Boardman made clear to a group of stockholders gathered aboard his special train while it was on a siding at the La Junta station on Saturday morning.
Cubbie, I think you mean stakeholder vice stockholder.
yukon11 Member # 2997
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Kind of like a football rally. But, if they can save Trinidad and Raton, more power to them.
Richard
PullmanCo Member # 1138
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Route the Scouts into Belen on the Transcon, change trains and run them up to Las Vegas on the NM state route.
Option A is NM State train runs to Raton. It's 45 miles Raton to Philmont.
Option B is NM State train runs to Springer. It's 30 miles Springer to Philmont
Option C is existing NM State train to Las Vegas. It's 97 miles Las Vegas to Philmont.
Again, without Kansas picking up the tab (and Kansas from Newton to Garden City IS THE LONG POLE IN THE TENT) for their share, the rest can say what they will, 3/4 are either going to the Transcon, or the 180 day notices will appear.
DonNadeau Member # 61606
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Although I enjoyed visiting it, Las Vegas, NM has under 14,000 residents. Raton has under 7,000 and Trinidad less than 10,000.
When you also factor in the seasonal nature of the Philmont Ranch and the financials of upgrading and maintaining the line, I see no viable justification for year round service, without some connection to Denver or wherever.
DeeCT Member # 3241
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Curious ..... If the route through Raton is discontinued, what exactly would be the alternate route? I often take this train. Destination Williams Junction. (Grand Canyon location and also have family nearby.) Unable to fly (medical reasons) and shudder to think of where/how/if there is bus transportation to the area.
DonNadeau Member # 61606
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Dee,
The most talked about reroute is what has become BNSF's mainline through the Texas Panhandle via Belen & Clovis NM, Amarillo, TX, and Wichita KS.
This route is remarkably boring compared to the current one.
If your condition dictates low altitude travel, the Sunset/Texas Pacific Amtrak route ascends the least if you wish to travel across the U.S.
Even with a route change, the Southwest Chief would still reach 7,352 feet between William Junction and Flagstaff. However, Williams sits at 6,770 feet and that apparently has been okay.
If Amtrak discontinues the Southwest Chief altogether, very likely it will change current Grand Canyon - Flagstaff - Phoenix Thruway bus service to connect with the Sunset/Texas Eagle. Very likely too this train will become daily.
mr williams Member # 1928
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Given the talk over the years of extending the Heartland Flyer northwards, could that become an alternative route for a revamped SWC, splitting/combining with the SL and TE at San Antonio?
Presumably Amtrak would want to maintain a CHI-LAX direct service at all costs, and without the almost whole extra day it takes on the TE route....is there any operational reason to prevent the return of the Desert Wind?
DonNadeau Member # 61606
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I believe that nearly all of the Desert Wind's former route between Yermo, CA (where it entered UP territory) and Salt Lake City is single tracked.
Financially, UP would have Amtrak over a barrel.
Totally agree with you that the present Eagle route would be totally unacceptable for a sole CHI - LAX service.
Geoff Mayo Member # 153
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quote:Originally posted by DonNadeau: I believe that nearly all of the Desert Wind's former route between Yermo, CA (where it entered UP territory) and Salt Lake City is single tracked.
Financially, UP would have Amtrak over a barrel.
I'm not sure about the northern segment between Las Vegas and Salt Lake City but the southern segment sees barely a dozen trains per day, with a capacity of something like twice that amount. Single tracked yes, but with passing loops frequently so no different from most other single lines.
DonNadeau Member # 61606
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Geoff,
Remembering UP's 750 million invoice for allowing the Sunset run daily (payable in advance), I become paranoid.
PullmanCo Member # 1138
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As far as extending the HF goes, it would have to become a non State-supported service. Kansas tried and failed to extend it even to Newton.
Of course, going after HSR dollars with 79mph speeds put them in the "no award" grant pile really fast. Then, having Governor Brownback in charge adds to that situation...
Geoff Mayo Member # 153
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quote:Originally posted by DonNadeau: Geoff,
Remembering UP's 750 million invoice for allowing the Sunset run daily (payable in advance), I become paranoid.
Well, I can't comment on any financial shenanigans but it does reek of "we don't want you unless you subsidize every UP train that runs". Reminds me of the 3rd-tracking of Cajon Pass: BNSF: We've added a 3rd track and we can run 150 trains a day instead of 100! Metrolink/Amtrak: Excellent, so we can get one of those paths? BNSF: Ooh no, sorry, we don't have any capacity.
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