Now to my pleasant surprise, I find that even though FECH is privately held, they are still required to file Series 10 reports with the SEC. Here is Form 10-K for 2013.
Possibly sharper eyes than mine can find mention of AAF within that document, but I can't. To contemplate operating a passenger train service for a private party's account and requiring substantial capital investment, is a material event and should be disclosed within that document.
I am quite prepared to accept that the former site of the FEC station in Downtown Miami is being redeveloped and will ostensibly include an AAF station. Simply because these parcels are being developed and the building has a provision for a passenger station does not in itself mean that passenger trains will ever use such. Likely, I'll know more first hand come late February when I plan to be in Miami.
I will further accept the reports that FEC is adding track capacity through the tri-county area of SE Florida. Lest we forget that considerable public funds are being expended to add capacity to the ports in both Miami and Ft Lauderdale that are getting ready to throw a big post-PANAMAX bash. I have my skepticism on that as well - what if nobody came?
Many a local media source has noted the opposition to the project - and I can wholly understand where it is coming from. Because the railroad came first, the communities were largely built around it. With some 24 additional trains a day "tearing" through town at 80mph without plans for any of them to stop could be considered only as a public nuisance. I myself have been contacted by a marina operator along the New River if I had any information beyond what I have posted at this and other Forums to which of course my answer had to be negative.
While I must admit I am at a loss to know "what they're up to" (I am backing away from my earlier thought they are "fattening up the livestock" to sell the railroad to a public agency), it simply is something other than to operate intercity passenger trains for their own account.
Posted by Geoff Mayo (Member # 153) on :
Your condiments package is ready to go, GBN. It makes a hat taste so much nicer, apparently.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
May I have icing, Mr. Mayo?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
From Marriott Biscayne Bay Miami--
I tried yesterday, but was thwarted by a monsoon rain so bad it made coverage on NBC Nightly News, but today I'm going down there to 1st Street to see what, if anything, has been done to at least break ground on the new station complex.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
From Marriott Biscayne Bay Miami--
Back from my expedition (slight stopover for some Grape Juice at a JW in Brickell).
Aside from some signage NOTHING, repeat NOTHING, is going on. I asked one gal sitting next to me at one concert about AAF and didn't know what it was.
I think it's nothing but a sham with some objective other than to operate passenger trains for the private sector's account.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Let's hope the NIMBY's don't prevail. I certainly want AAF to succeed. Would love to see a privately initiated project get the job done without a lot of government 'help'.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
It certainly appears that this ostensibly privately sponsored initiative has had one roadblock or the other thrown at it that it is starting to resemble a government project.
Let me note that nothing whatever has come to my attention to suggest any sincerity to this initiative. While I have backed away from my original thought that the initiative was a ploy to sell the railroad to a public agency, I have since learned that the railroad is handily covering its debt service arising from the leveraged buyout.
At this time, I hold the initiative is a ploy to generate interest in the development of the Miami property where the former FEC station was located. To the unsuspecting public that there will be high speed rail service between Miami and Orlando, will only peak interest in tenancies, once there are enough commitments to promote the structure is (whatever)% occupied, the rail initiative will fade from whatever spotlight it currently has - and from having been to Miami last month, I don't think that spotlight shines as brightly as it does within this railfan community.
Now if there ever is to be intrastate rail service within Florida owing to some kind of "transformation in Tallahassee", I think a much more reasonable and practical plan would comprise Jax-Miami operating to West Palm over the FEC, thence SAL (Tri Rail) to Miami Intermodal, and with a BeeLine bus connection Cocoa-Orlando. The frequency would be "three a day" operating at 79mph and making at least one stop in every on-line county.
Equipment; "plain old single level cars".
Operator: something tells me the overseeing State agency will be looking for some party other than Amtrak.
Again, slim chance of such coming to pass yet a greater chance than AAF commencing private sector operations.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
To expand upon my immediate thoughts of how a publicly funded intrastate Miami-Jax service could look, we first have to consider the valid objection to the AAF initiative of that "they're going to tear through our town and we can't ride it", in that any service had best be prepared to stop at least once in every county it goes through. This is because it is my understanding that, if there is to be State level funding, Florida law requires any county desiring rail service must impose a tax dedicated to "a fair share". Towards that end ever wonder why Tri Rail has not expanded Northward into Martin County? Well, that's Fox News watching, train hating country up there and they are not about to impose the necessary tax. I'm sure one will find the Sun Rail service area dictated by that same maxim.
Nevertheless, should publicly funded Jax-Mia intrastate service ever move forth, here is my proposal for stops:
Dade: Miami (MCS), Hollywood Broward: Deerfield Palm Beach: Delray, West Palm Martin: Stuart St. Lucie: Fort Pierce Indian River: Vero Beach Brevard: Melbourne Orange: Cocoa (Beeliner bus Orlando) Volusia: Daytona Beach Flagler: Palm Coast St. Johns: St. Augustine Duval: Jacksonville (JT), Moncrief (Amtrak)
I know that all of this is moot; after all, AAF will soon be "up and running" Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Several AAF related posts have appeared at a "related of sorts" topic and I believe to a geat extent the fault that such occurred is mine. For ready reference, here are X-links to such:
ORLANDO, Fla. – All Aboard Florida has named Archer Western as its construction manager for the rail infrastructure at Orlando International Airport. Working with the Greater Orlando Aviation Authority, Archer Western will build the railroad and related structures for All Aboard Florida’s intercity passenger trains that begin service from the airport in late 2017......
Earlier this year, All Aboard Florida awarded Archer Western overall responsibility for construction management and general-contracting services for the Miami-to-West-Palm-Beach segment of its Miami-to-Orlando rail service.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
This page of the Congressional Record makes what I would call "interesting reading":
Mr. POSEY. Mr. Chairman, All Aboard Florida was presented as a private passenger rail project that would run from Miami to Orlando, and vice versa, along Florida's east coast.
The project was initially sold to the public as the first privately funded and operated passenger train. However, that story soon changed, as All Aboard Florida decided to pursue a $1.6 billion loan from the Department of Transportation. Apparently, because the loan requires a strict Environmental Impact Statement to be completed, All Aboard Florida decided to also apply for $1.75 billion in tax exempt private activity bonds from the Department of Transportation.
Now I realize there is a lot of optimism regarding this initiative around here, and who knows, it just might turn a wheel (and maybe I'll still be of sound body to take a joyride, which I'll do). But it will be highly questionable that the project is, as first advertised, funded solely by the private sector. Now what will be interesting will be an authoritative answer to the question; will it be subsidized to any greater extent than is other private sector commercial transportation?
Enquiring mind wants to know.
Posted by Vincent206 (Member # 15447) on :
If we believe that the Acela pays its own way and generates a profit, then I expect we'll see a system in Florida that covers a large portion of its expenses. Unfortunately, because HSR systems are still rather unique operations that require large sums of money to build, there isn't any sort of standardized GAAP analysis that can determine true profit or loss on a clear and consistent basis. But whether or not the system generates a consistent profit, I think it's a worthy project. Once the system is finally open, I expect Floridians will ride in significant numbers and the majority will be very thankful for the high speed option.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
The latest from 'Trains' on the new train sets for AAF aka Brightline:
For those without access to the article, this is a summary:
SACRAMENTO, Calif. — Mike Reininger says there is one guiding concept behind making Brightline successful: “In order to make money, you have to address customer needs head-on.”
The wisdom came during a tour this week hosted by Reininger, who is president of All Aboard Florida’s Brightline passenger service, and Siemens Rolling Stock President and CEO Michael Cahill. Siemens is building the stainless steel trainsets and Charger locomotives that Brightline is expected to begin operating in June 2017. The equipment is being fabricated and assembled at Siemens Rolling Stock’s sprawling Sacramento facility, where stainless steel carbody production takes place in a newly constructed building.
Reininger says that a “maniacal attention to detail” initially created some friction between engineers tasked with design and his marketing, mechanical, and operations people. Brightline employees, Reininger says, are eager to create a truly different transportation product that avoided “we’ve always done it this way” train travel legacies.
The article talks of innovations for the trains including hidden couplers (like the 1939 UP streamliners), doorway extenders for level ADA access at all doors, and wider aisles - also for wheelchair car to car mobility. Supposedly service to West Palm is next summer with Orlando service when trackwork and stations are complete.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
If AAF is to initiate service, the question must be raised to what extent is it private enterprise:
All Aboard Floridas plan to operate regular passenger train service between Miami and Orlando is in jeopardy following a federal judges order questioning the companys ability to borrow $1.75 billion in taxpayer-backed federal bonds to pay for the project.
At the same time, in a lawsuit filed by two Florida counties looking to block the project, the judge found that the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) ignored federal law when it issued bonding authority for Phase II of the private rail project from Cocoa to Orlando
This ostensibly private sector passenger service initiative is simply going to the inevitable public funding trough, likely quite opaque, or to the "service to begin on a date to be announced" graveyard.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
It appears that there is definitely construction of the West Palm Beach AAF station:
I guess that is a positive for this initiative's advocates.
Now a negative; as I immediately noted, Train hating Fox News watching Martin County just won't give up. Now they have come up with a real "brainer" proposal reported by various media outlets.
From.West Palm, run AAF along the SAL (existing Amtrak route) presumably using the existing FEC-SAL physical connection near Magnonia Park to Okeechobee, then build a connection there to the FEC's line to Ft. Pierce, putting a "dog leg" into what otherwise would be a "straight shot".
The Googlemobile has been along there. Here is looking Eastward on the FEC and showing the present X-ing of the SAL.
Forgetting the cost, who knows how much additional running time would result from this reroute? Also, that will simply allow the other train hating counties, such as St Lucie, Indian River, and Brevard up the Treasure Coast to pile on and want their own "dog legs" where no infrastructure presently exists.
Once again, I have to note that with no plans for AAF to provide service to these counties, we are addressing "public nuisance without public service". I would think that to provide a station stop within each of these counties would go a long way to obviate any such claim, but such is simply not part of the AAF business plan.
Necessary disclaimer: author is not opposed to this initiative, but is highly skeptical that, should it be inaugurated, it will be solely within the private sector as it is being represented.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman:
While I must admit I am at a loss to know "what they're up to" (I am backing away from my earlier thought they are "fattening up the livestock" to sell the railroad to a public agency), it simply is something other than to operate intercity passenger trains for their own account.
Well, after I had backed away from my thoughts regarding "fattening up the livestock" , look what TRAINS Newswire, as well as other outlets, reports (paywalled):
Florida East Coast Railways owner is getting ready to put the regional up for sale, according to a Bloomberg News report.
Fortress Investment Group, which purchased the FEC for $3.5 billion in June 2007, has hired investment banking firms Barclays and Morgan Stanley to advise on a potential sale, Bloomberg reported, citing unnamed sources said to be familiar with the matter.
Representatives from Fortress and FEC did not immediately respond to Trains News Wires messages seeking comment on Thursday afternoon.
It is unclear what impact, if any, a potential sale would have on All Aboard Floridas Brightline passenger project.
The maritime shipping industry is in a "world of hurts" nowadays with much of the hurt thanks to overexpansion. Neo (post) PANAMAX and the East Coast ports that were getting ready to throw the big party could well be looking at a "nobody came". As I noted in one of the earlier topics, the State with its sizeable investment to make the Port of Miami into a major player may wish to have control of the only road serving the Port so that traffic can be forwarded to the "open gateway" of JAX. Let's face it, maritime companies along with other large shippers do not like being at the mercy of one road. As an aside I have to wonder if development of the Port of Lazaro Cardenas, Michaun MX has not been hindered account only one road (KCS-M) serves it. Of course, political instability could be a greater factor.
When I was "down below" this past January, from my hotel room where I happily pay a premium for a Port of Miami view, all too many cranes were pointing Skyward.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
quote:[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Fair Use:
. . . All Aboard Florida decided to pursue a $1.6 billion loan from the Department of Transportation. Apparently, because the loan requires a strict Environmental Impact Statement to be completed, All Aboard Florida decided to also apply for $1.75 billion in tax exempt private activity bonds from the Department of Transportation.
Now I realize there is a lot of optimism regarding this initiative around here, and who knows, it just might turn a wheel (and maybe I'll still be of sound body to take a joyride, which I'll do). But it will be highly questionable that the project is, as first advertised, funded solely by the private sector. Now what will be interesting will be an authoritative answer to the question; will it be subsidized to any extent than is other private sector commercial transportation?
Since what we are talking about here are loans and a relief from taxes on their bonds, I would not be calling that a subsidy. If we see them hand out asking for grants, now that is a different story.
However, I am still inclined to believe that they are taking a page out of Flagler's concept of over a century ago. They are not as concerned whether or not the railroad makes money as they are that it encourages development of other activities that will make money for them.
As to these counties trying to get the railroad doglegged around them off an established railroad alignment: The taxpayer suit should be by those who think the county is wasting their money opposing the project. It reminds me much of some of the anti-HSR whiners in California that were literally trying to get the railroad rerouted around their cow barn.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Thus far, Bloomberg appears to be the only major media source reporting the story. A bit more "depth" would be nice, but any such talks are exploratory at this time. I still hold that the State is the party with most to lose should the FEC fall into the hands of either CSX or NS. Also a plus for State ownership - AAF has a better chance then to move forth, albeit "not exactly" as a private sector venture.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
Since in Florida CSX owns almost everything else of any significance in the was of railroad lines, for FEC to be taken over by NS seems to be a natural, and has for many years.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Mr. Harris, I can only reiterate the position that any large shipper holds; "we want two roads; we don't want to be held hostage by one".
While some agricultural shippers have long accepted being at the mercy of one road, maritime companies have not. Any established East or West Coast port has always had two, and even three, roads available. This is still the case with only seven Class I's surviving (when I first became interested in industry affairs, i.e. a railfan, there were 112 of such).
But the State of Florida has invested substantial funds to turn their ports into players in the Neo-PANAMAX era - and beyond playing house with Love Tubs. I believe all those ports are at a disadvantage being served by only one road (remember Tampa only has CSX). The best way to ensure those ports stay competitive is to have the one road, FEC, serving them stay independent, yet accessing, in this case, the open gateway of JAX. The State has "walked the walk" with their maritime ports with the Big $$$, along with what Feddybucks they could scrounge (think dredging the Miami channels). Now to protect that investment, best ensure the one road serving them is in their control as well.
I'm not a socialist in this life; but I do hold that he who has put the $$$ on the table best have control - and railroad transportation is part and parcel of such.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
I would agree that an independent operator would be the most likely outcome. I'd vote for someone like Watco . Their recent acquisition of Kinder Morgan Terminals, joint venture with Greenbrier railcar, and operation of 300 miles of NS West Va lines suggests it's ready for something the size of FEC. I doubt if Gov. Scottt would have an interest in playing rail baron.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Mr. Palmland, what else other than container traffic does FEC have?
OK, some minerals (phosphates), maybe some citrus, but it seems to me most of those processing plants are in Central FL away from FEC and very much on CSX.
The State has put the big $$$ in the ports; all with Gov. Scott at the helm. I still would think they want to protect their investment. Possibly they will choose an independent operator, as distinct from owner, who can take over a darned efficient and profitable road.
One thing of importance around here; AAF could well be dead if the road is sold to anyone other than the State. Lest we forget, the Miami real estate is not part of the deal. However, if the State does own the FEC, then I will become considerably more optimistic that AAF will turn a revenue wheel. However, before I go and order a cake from Standard Market shaped like a Bowler Hat, the project is no longer for the account of the private sector.
Final thought; we are now three months into the Neo-PANAMAX era. Last week, I drove the NJTurnpike near Elizabeth; awful lot of cranes Skyward. Maritime shipping, as exemplified by the Hanjin bankruptcy and Maersk laying up vessels, is starting to resemble the Dark Ages when we both started our railroad careers.
Posted by DonNadeau (Member # 61606) on :
There seems to be a misconception in this forum that the United States is a capitalistic country. That has become less and less true for well over a hundred years.
As a Libertarian I am not totally comfortable with this trend, but don't see it going away.
As AAF, if completed, will promote among things longer tourist visits in FLA and thus more money spent and jobs created, I see it as no different from when a municipality or state provides incentives (such as infrastructure improvements) for businesses to locate in their areas.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Here is far more detail and insight to the proposed FEC sale prepared by a security analyst:
..But the wrinkle in all of this would be the competitive advantage that either CSX or Norfolk Southern would gain against the other if one were to win out. Review of any merger between rail operators would involve the Surface and Transportation Board, STB and the Federal Transportation Commission, FTC and Department of Justice, DOJ.
Based upon the Hart-Scott-Rodino Act, HSR Act, I would not think that either the FTC or the DOJ would rule against a deal for either CSX or Norfolk Southern, assuming that there was some sort of agreement with which both Class I's would have access to the South Florida region. I would think that the STB would be more involved in determining whether or not it would be better for FECR to be acquired by a separate operator such as Genesee & Wyoming, or another third party such as a private equity or infrastructure firm..
Since to allow an acquisition by either NS or CSX would require giving access to the other, it appears this analyst views the sale of the road to a Short Line operator such as G&W, but he notes that they are quite leveraged from their recent acquisitions. So far as mine, the State is "not on the page".
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Following up the above "find", it's hard to believe that the above content is "free". Paywalls are becoming the "norm" nowadays on the Internet - unless of course someone is trying to sell you something. This is how things should have been right from Day One.
Now I still hold that the State is the party with most to lose. That three months into Neo-PANAMAX, it looks like, as the analyst notes, "nobody came to the party". With the precarious competitive position that the Florida ports find themselves in, to have either NS or CSX get the FEC would be fatal to the State's initiative. Naturally, I would hope the State would see the wisdom of leaving the existing management to operate the road for their account. No question whatever; they run a "class act".
Finally, with the FEC real estate interests divested, there goes the AAF argument that "it's there for the real estate". With State ownership, there is a chance that AAF could move ahead. With private ownership, it's done for, as lest we forget, the CSX and NS predecessors surrendered their rights to operate passenger trains for their own account under RPSA70.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Surprised someone has not yet posted this here - and rub a little egg in my face while they're at it:
Come what may with AAF, Siemens has to be considered a player for the A-III order. Only downside; California went for Hillary and gave her the "Pyrrhic Victory" of winning the national popular vote.
While hardly an off the shelf copy, first for an 8' wide carboy and of course FRA crashworthiness, it looks like the designers started with proven European designs:
Interesting video, GBN, thanks for posting. I wonder what the timeline is for AAF equipment delivery compared to Viewliner II.
Perhaps Amtrak's next order will look something like this for NEC Regionals and corridor trains where bilevels won't work.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
While a twenty car passenger car order, as was AAF's, was common back in "railroad days" - not so anymore.
Obviously, as I noted, Siemens has "eye on the prize" - a 500 car A-III order!
While of course I respect, I cannot accept Mr. Nadeau's position that AAF will increase Florida tourism. First for those coming from out of state, I think it's "knee jerk" to rent an auto as "Mickey and consorts" are not exactly on the perimeter of McCoy (MCO). And for what it worth, the only Amtrak in-station auto rental outlet in Florida is (maybe was) a Hertz at ORL.
I'd think that AAF's market is a Central Florida day business traveler who "knows his way around" MCO better than he does Downtown, who is going to the government and judiciary facilities surrounding the Miami Central Station at "First and First".
At the moment, my Florida trip looks set for Super Bowl weekend (fortunately miles away in Houston, but the Dolphins, as a Wild Card contender could possibly be in it), auto down (Mike, let's see what we can do about an en-route meet up), two days first at comparatively cheap digs Holiday Inn Express in Boca (Red Lex will need a service stop), then two more in Miami for a Cleveland Orchestra (funny how I've seen them perform four times this year - Miami (2), Salzburg, and their hometown - yet only seen the Chicago Symphony twice) concert, up to Auto Train for Voyage 23 (NB at the moment is about $650 - cheap, cheap), then home from there. I guess I'll miss out on a possible AAF joyride, but I'll certainly get down to 'First and First". What will be interesting to see if any rail access is being built to the above ground level platforms. Maybe, just maybe, I'll "People Mover away to Arsht Center station" thinking "holy s^it, they DO mean business".
Posted by DonNadeau (Member # 61606) on :
Mr. Norman,
I believe that you are quite correct that most Americans and many Canadians coming to Orlando and perhaps less so Miami will want to rent a car. That's their habit.
However, my mind focused two statistics--1) the sheer number of visitors to FLA, which totaled 97 million in 2014 and 2) the number of international airlines that fly to FLA some to Fort Lauderdale and Tampa but most to Miami and Orlando.
In addition, there are all the international passengers that arrive on airlines based in the U.S.
Although I can't prove it, it's logical to believe that visitors from outside of North America will be far less motivated to rent a car and that many that arrive in Miami will also want to visit Orlando. Also at least to me, it's logical to believe that within that 97 million visitors are enough people to fill many All Aboard Florida trains.
.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: While hardly an off the shelf copy, first for an 8' wide carboy and of course FRA crashworthiness, it looks like the designers started with proven European designs:
Surely you jest: 8 feet wide car body? That is barely bus width. Think of what what you get with Greyhound or city bus 4 across seating and with an aisle barely up to normal airplane width. That is what is happening here.
The normal standard American Railroad passenger car is 10 feet wide with 4 across seating, giving nicely wider seats and a wider aisle. The Japanese Shinkansen cars are 11'-1"wide with 3-2 seating. Even with that the seats are comfortable wide and the aisle width quite adequate.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Mr. Harris, let's get on the same page.
I think I properly noted that a Continental Europe car is somewhat over 8' wide (British Isles still less) and that North American is 10'6". But if I didn't, I trust this recitation will satisfy all concerned that I do.
So of course, the AAF cars are not off the shelf Continental Europe, nor will be the A-III's if Siemens is to get such an order. It simply is a start - and somehow I think they bid to AAF a price based on a 500 car order - and I still think those delivered cars will trade their Brightline livery for that of Amtrak.
You holding credentials as a Professional Engineer, have knowledge of the stuff that counts, such as where the stress occurs with a North American coupler vs. that with a European Link and Pin. I think this Forum would be delighted to learn any comments you have on the immediate.
Merry Christmas.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
Mr. Norman:
I was not questioning you. I was questioning what was the size of the equipment actually being built. I have seen some really strange decisions made by people that know just enough to be dangerous.
Clearances is one of the things I have played with a lot. For example, virtually the entire US railroad network, outside the Northeast Corridor, will clear the Shinkansen vehicle despite its 11'-1" (actually 3380 mm) width being in excess of the 10'-8" wide AAR standard plates. With the extra width and 3&2 seating you are carrying much less metal per passenger than with standard 10'-0" wide coaches and 2&2 seating. The Northeast Corridor could also carry this width with shaving of the current platforms. By the way, these platforms do not meet ADA requirements either by elevation or offset as they are now. (the difference between coach width and AAR width is due to grab irons and mid offset / end overhang as the AAR plates includes everything.)
Posted by Ocala Mike (Member # 4657) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman:
At the moment, my Florida trip looks set for Super Bowl weekend (fortunately miles away in Houston, but the Dolphins, as a Wild Card contender could possibly be in it), auto down (Mike, let's see what we can do about an en-route meet up)
Just saw this, Gil, and hope you and yours had a great holiday season. My breakfast spot of choice lately has become the "low-rent" Waffle House (as once featured on Anthony Bourdain's TV show), but of course there's always the Cracker Barrel. I know some decent pizza places, too, but they're a bit off I-75. E-mail me your plans when you get a chance, and Happy New Year.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
Here is a link to a couple of positive articles on Brightline. One is from the Reason Foundation, which is most interesting since this is the first positive article on any passenger rail project I have ever seen out of these guys.
The Poole report indeed makes interesting reading, but lest we forget, any issue of Private Activity Bonds represents a subsidy from the public trough by grace of the exemption from Federal Income taxation under IRC Sec 141(a) et seq. Allow.me to point out that there is no "full faith" provisions associated with PAB's - only the revenue stream from the project. Where those bonds will stand in the "pecking order" in a bankruptcy proceeding is the prerogative of "da Judge".
I find that the Post's reader comments to be quite mature (so far).
But at this time, one must acknowledge that not one spade of earth has yet to be turned anywhere North of WPB. Building 40 miles of new road along the Bee Line Cocoa to Orlando, had best be underway if the 2019 date is to be met. If the full route becomes a "service to begin on a date to be announced", then I'm at a loss to know how a MIA-WPB premium express train service will ever make it.
At such time that flops, the FEC will have made improvements to their "Gold Coast" lime enabling better capacity to handle the surge of traffic from the Ports in the Neo-PANAMAX age the soothsayers foresee.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Midyear, the Brightline express train in South Florida is expected to open, linking Miami and West Palm Beach. When its finished in 2019, travelers can make the trip between Miami and Orlando in three hours, while driving takes four. The terminus at the new downtown MiamiCentral station will include a food hall known as Central Fare
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Looks like they have a real professional doing their PR work. Well done. Looks like Miami to W Palm is a done deal. Any word on Orlando extension?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
The opposition is simply "never say die" and has found one more "obstacle" to throw in the path of AAF:
Shipyard owners filed a lawsuit in federal court Monday to block the 12-day closing of a drawbridge on the New River. They say closing the bridge Feb. 11-23, during the height of the winter yachting season, will hurt business. Boat traffic will increase for the Miami International Boat Show in February, also making for bad timing, they say
All Aboard Florida wasn't kidding about the bright. Nice attractive livery that will get attention, as did Santa Fe's with its warbonnet, etc.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Siemens is well positioned to be a contender when Amtrak lets a 500 car A-III order. Something tells me they bid on the AAF order at at a 500 car rate simply to get in the running for that 500 car order Amtrak will have to place soon enough - or shut the NECorridor down.
Those AAF cars could well end up in Amtrak livery themselves.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Looks like the Airport Authority likes to dig things up. Nevermind a train.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
I still wonder why Brightland doesn't provide a stop in the Fort Pierce / Jupiter area. That is a fast growing area and the NIMBY's would change their tune if they could get a fast train to the MCO terminal.
While the Washington players have changed, I'd think this is exactly the kind of thing the Administration would support if not champion.
Posted by DonNadeau (Member # 61606) on :
I also believe that the Orlando extension is exactly the type of project that would interest the president.
As a candidate President Trump mentioned transportation infrastructure many times.
AAF positives >
1) The president has not spent his life car-centric environment (far more it). 2) As a private entity AFF does not add another layer of government, and 3) At least once an infrastructure initiative helps pay for West Palm Beach - Orlando construction. the future of AAF seems financially viable.
In my opinion, any infrastructure initiative depends on strong Democratic support. Representative Mica may have been vanished in defeat, but his spirit lives on.
I just can't imagine enough Republicans supporting infrastructure spending before seeing such things as a lower tax rate for corporations repatriating foreign profits to the U.S. bring in enough tax revenue to support an infrastructure initiative without adding to the national debt.
On the other hand, politicians--Democrat and Republican--love pork for their districts.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
From Holiday Inn Macon
AAF is likely to have to throw a bone or two to Martin, St Lucie, Indian River and Brevard with stops - not all trains but one or two a day.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
From Holiday Inn Express Boca Raton (actually Waiting Room JM Lexus Margate; routine 45K)--
All I can say is quite the resemblance to OBB (Austria) RailJet equipment.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
From "First and Third" Miami--
OK; I will concede that there is rail related infrastructure a building here. I have photos, but do not belong to any photo sharing site. So if someone wants to step up and help, i.e. someone at a photo sharing site, I'll gladly forward the photos to wherever you say.
But whenever I get the photos posted through someone's photo site, you will quickly see they aren't going to run any train out of there this July.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Good to see a shot of the Charger locos for the Cascades trains.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Great video, GBN. What struck me is how can Brightline develop a whole new train with features superior to Amtrak and have it up and running in, I guess, at least half the time of the struggling viewliners?
Imagine, seat selection when you purchase tickets, plentiful connectivity for electronic gadgets, bike storage in your car, window shades that work, improved tray tables, and wide aisles. People might actually ride it!
I wouldn't be surprised to see them announce plans to go to Tampa at some point. Meanwhile, I see Amtrak will finally get into the new Miami stations:
MIC station Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
If what is seen is indicative of what Siemens can build, let's hope they are in the running for "the prize" from Amtrak.
Also, here is a video which is enjoyable as a whole, but most ominous is how this kid closes starting at 42:00.
Posted by DonNadeau (Member # 61606) on :
Yikes. NIMBY at its finest.
From Trains (link wouldn't work if you don't subscribe) & copyright issues prevent me from copying entire article. Bold is my emphasis.
"Bills introduced in Floridas House and Senate would require the Florida Department of Transportation to create a new state bureaucracy to regulate railroads where not federally pre-empted an effort which appears aimed at All Aboard Floridas Brightline passenger service.
"The legislation, proposed by lawmakers representing the 'Treasure Coast' area north of West Palm Beach, would add liability, funding, and reporting obligations for railroads operating trains above 80 mph, and give any community the ability to dictate train speeds through its town." Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
All Aboard Florida has delayed the startup of its Brightline passenger train service. The Brightline service had been scheduled to start between Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach in August and to include service to Miami in September. All Aboard Florida now expects to hold a grand opening for its Brightline rail service sometime in fall. The service is expected to extend from South Florida to Orlando by 2019
The landscape is a might bit different than when the program was announced, as both the railroad over which AAF were to operate were one in same. Now the railroad is owned by Mexican interests, and AAF remains owned by the "shell" remaining of FEC Industries.
The Treasure Coast opposition has hardly been appeased, and the ability to obtain financing for the West Palm-Cocoa segment - let alone the new ROW into McCOy, is hardly done deal - especially since Fortress - now owned by Japanese interests - has no connection anymore with either the railroad or AAF.
I think even the optimists must accept that there are storm clouds ahead - and I think anyone knows "it hasn't a prayer" as some kind of Miami-WP "Super Shuttle".
Posted by daniel3197 (Member # 27) on :
Thank you Gilbert for you very informed and wise update on AAF--Brightline. I say start a new run of the Brightline cars--equipment by Siemens in Sacramento CA . This would finally give us in California more needed equipment for Amtrak California standard rail services. This Brightline stock is real equipoment that has been delivered now and meets ALL current safety standards in 2017.
A very interesting topic to follow for us California passenger railfans. ---Daniel
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Daniel, I hold that contractual negotiations with FEC's new owner, Groupo Mexico, are hardly a done deal.
First in comparison with Amtrak, they do not have the law of the land on their side. The Amtrak member roads are mandated under RPSA 70 to negotiate in good faith over access for routes and frequencies. At the advocacy comminity must have wondered just how much "good faith" was shown when the "laundry lists" were presented by the roads for routes and frequencies mandated under PRIIA 08, and none of such were ever challenged.
There is no such law of the land, and no such bi-lateral treaty in place to compel Groupo to "come to the table". I hold there is no assurance they even want to. For all we know, Groupo does not consider AAF any kind of "must have", and is seeking to."cut losses" before they are dug in any deeper.
It is an ominous note to me how the several local agencies - all badly needing additional equipment - have "higgled and piggled" over placing the two Talgo sets into revenue service. If the Siemens rail equipment I have ridden overseas over the past three years - and what I'll ride next month (I detest outdoor concerts; too many distractions, so to get my "Summer Fix", I have to go either to New York for Mostly Mozart or to Salzburg for the Festival), is quality equipment - and the only negative I have is excessive "groaning" when moving through turnouts or around sharp curves. All told if AAF is stillborn, or flops after the MIA-WPB segment is inaugurated, I cannot be sure there will be a ready market for the surplus equipment.
And a final thought, lest we forget that Mexico is a land where passenger trains, save two routes that are best considered excursions, are extinct. When US roads made investments in the State owned rail system, the private sector investors laid a non negotiable condition.on the table - no more passenger trains; and don't even THINK of a "Mextrak". Needless to say, trains such as the "El Regiomontano", El Tapatio" and "Aguila Azteca" - all of which I rode - have vamanosed.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Before this topic gets banished to the archives, here is an update from the objective Cox Enterprises' Palm Beach Post and, to me, their insightful Business reporter:
All Aboard Floridas Brightline passenger train service will start carrying passengers between West Palm Beach and Miami by the end of the year, offering introductory fares and buy-one-get-one free offers to entice commuters to ride.
Brightline had said the first leg of its service was expected to start service in late summer, with a grand opening ceremony expected to be held in the fall. But during a tour of the companys sprawling MiamiCentral station on Monday, Brightlines CEO Dave Howard said trains will begin carrying passengers later this year.
The exact schedule is expected to be released in the coming weeks, and ticket prices will be announced about 10 days before service begins, company officials said.
No one has done this in more than 100 years, Howard said of the companys plan to return passenger train service to Henry Flaglers historic railroad corridor. There really is no template. We want a safe and successful launch
Unlike Gannett's Treasure Coast Newspapers, the Post does not appear to be the "house organ" for the "anti-AAF" factions to the North, but at this time, it appears the August "launch" date is quickly sliding by. Possibly they are holding out for a Miami-WP "launch", but either way, they will have a Miami-WP "Super Shuttle" that, let's be honest, "hasn't a prayer".
WP-McCOy continues to be set back; I will get no personal "I told you so" satisfaction, as I would have definitely taken a "bumper post to bumper post" joyride.
That the railroad and FECI, AAF'S parent, are now owned by Mexican and Japanese interests respectively "hardly helps the cause". Likewise the "in the B's" financing is hardly a "slam dunk". Use FECI's "pot of Gold" from selling the railroad forAAF? Sorry folks, "we don't do it that way no more". "Debt free is for sissies and makes you ripe for a takeover."
While extending Tri-Rail to Miami Central makes a lot of sense (even if the existing airport service will have to be "rationalized"), that won't happen so long as AAF operates MIA-WPB.
All told, I think the AAF end game will be a B-School case study. I think there will be many an avenue for students to analyze "what went wrong".
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Mcclatchy's Miami Herald has a recent wide ranging AAF article:
I've been saying from the start that a stop in each of the three Treasure Coast counties would have gone a long way to "make the medicine go down".
Even without TC opposition, AAF has two strikes against it. Sale of the Railrway to Mexican interests, Industries to Japanese. Financing hardly a "slam dunk". Guarantee if all they do get up and running is MIA-WPB, "it hasn't a prayer".
But when I "come on down" during February, if anything's running, I'll take a joyride
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
I'd guess this material means AAF plans to run a simulation today with however many trains they plan for still unannounced "opening day".
Additionally, I've learned that AAF is planning to build a station at Cocoa-Rockledge, Brevard County. To me, if there is any foundation to this, means that AAF is compromising their business plan seeing a need to offer intermediate stops (others I'd bet would be Stuart in Martin County, Fort Pierce in St. Lucie, and Vero Beach in Indian River) or they realize that the Bee Line into MCO is a "non happen" and the best they can hope for is a bus operating along the Expressway.
Finally, it looks like my '18 Florida trip will be limited to a two nighter in Miami for a Cleveland Orchestra concert (Mahler's 9th) last weekend of January. It will be a fly down and back with no car rental. Looks like an AAF joyride will not be until '19 - if it's still running, instead of "suspended until full completion". I could conceivably do a "drive down" during March without going to the $350ni Marriott (a $185ni Express in Boca as destination), and should I (maybe a concert up at Kravis in WPB) do so, I'll of course work in a joyride. Again, let me reiterate I am not opposed to AAF; just skeptical.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Tronc's Sun Sentinel, normally a mite bit more upbeat than the columnists that write for Gannett's "Treasure" up the line, does a bit of opinionating regarding the public nuisance Brightline's "sim" will create within their reporting of the event:
South Florida drivers will face something new in traffic this week: Brightline high-speed passenger trains will be running up to 20 times per day between Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach.
These are test runs for training crews, so no passengers will be aboard.
Brightline officials have said service between the new Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach train stations would begin before the end of the year and service to the MiamiCentral station would be added early in the new year.
No exact start date or ticket pricing has been revealed.
For the "sim", the many X-ings are being guarded by sworn peace officers. Once regular operations start, that Law Enforcement presence cannot be expected to be maintained. Safe bet is somebody will get "clipped".
Finally, the video clip is saying 2020 for "all the way".
Posted by Vincent206 (Member # 15447) on :
Cascades trains have been testing on the soon-to-be-opening Lakewood Bypass since summer. It's given the communities a chance to get used to the trains and, so far, I haven't seen reports of any collisions or accidents with the trains. But inevitably, someone is going to get crunched by a train and the lead story on every local TV newscast will be focused on the accident.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
I'm certain the pro-AAF contingency around here disagrees with this Cox Palm Beach Post columnist, but for the vast majority of Gold Coast residents, who must X the FEC (I was horrified once at a train of theirs doing at least 60 near an entertainment "strip" in Delray Beach), and have no intention of using AAF, their sentiments could well be portrayed here:
Ive got to hand it to the people at Brightline. Theyve come up with a brilliant move: Simulated train service. I cant wait to be sitting at a Florida East Coast Railway train crossing in my car waiting for the big moment. Will it be one of those soul-crushing, three-engine freight trains that go on for miles and sometimes slow to a crawl?
As I noted earlier, my now committed Florida trip will be a two nighter "fly down and back" to Miami for a Cleveland Orchestra concert last weekend in January. So there will be no time to reasonably work in a joyride if AAF is running. But who knows, I just might plan a second trip staying at a "perfectly nice" Express in Boca (Turnpike and Glades), and with an auto (my own or rented), a joyride would be "doable".
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
> "I've been saying from the start that a stop in each of the three Treasure Coast counties would have gone a long way to "make the medicine go down".
I totally agree. Why the inflexibility? How long could three or so extra stops take? AAF doesn't even have to have every train stop at each. Amtrak doesn't have every Acela stop at the same stations. Baltimore yes. Princeton Junction no.
> "Guarantee if all they do get up and running is MIA-WPB, 'it hasn't a prayer'".
Again totally agree. Due to sheer number of tourists alone Miami and Orlando are ideal for frequent high-speed service.
Due in part to its low population and commercial density Palm Beach County travelers will likely choose cars over rail.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Sure seems like $600M, let alone $1.2B, is a bit more than this FDFC agency has chewed upon in the past. Review the list of recent projects they have been involved with and you'll see most have been within the NFP sector - and $8M is a "bigun" for them. The use of the term "Revenue Bonds" implies that there is no guarantor beyond the revenue that AAF - a subsidiary of a subsidiary - can generate.
I guess they can oversee the issue of Private Activity Bonds under IRC Sec 141(a).
Going to this agency seems to me a "grandstand play". If there is so much expectation that this venture will generate a fair return, then why hasn't parent company Softbank reached in to their pocket and pulled out some loose .
Posted by MargaretSPfan (Member # 3632) on :
Did some Googling about SoftBank, and learned, to my surprise, that it is the third largest public company in Japan! Only Toyota and Mitsubishi UFJ Financial are bigger. I had never heard of SoftBank until Gil mentioned it.
And I also learned that SoftBank is into telecommunications and computers, and almost nothing else. Buying AAF is thus, to me, really, rally odd.
And, as I have said many times here and on other forums, no one can ever really "make money" operating passenger trains, because we passengers -- NOT "customers", please! -- are very expensive to transport, because we need a lot of things that freight never needs:
Air Water Food BATHROOMS! Seats Windows HVAC Smooth ride On-board crew Dependable schedules Stations with everything passenger railcars have
All of the above costs a lot of money. And it is wrong to count only operating costs and to ignore capital costs when stating what passenger trains cost to operate.
To me, AAF would only make sense if it is a commuter operation, serving people who need to go between their homes and their jobs as their "anchor tenants" if you will. What I do not know is where the present-day demand is for transit that AAF could serve quite well, if the services went where people needed to go. And it is not rocket science to learn where that demand is.
In thinking about this today, I compared AAF to the Northern California Capital Corridor service, which runs between San Jose and Auburn now, but at first ran only between Oakland and Sacramento. That service is very successful. But! Unlike AAF, the Capitol Corridor trains operate on a line that is owned by a Class 1 railroad and has been operating for more than 100 years, and has been double-track for a long time. And Oakland and Sacramento are only around 70 miles apart by air and 90 miles apart by rail.
But Miami and Orlando are almost 3 times as far apart by air as are Oakland and Sacramento, and around 2-1/2 times as far apart by rail as are Oakland and Sacramento.
So -- doing the math shows me that it really makes no economic sense at all to try to run a passenger train service between Miami and Orlando, at least not unless there is profitable freight business between Miami and Orlando. (This could conceivably include a reborn RPO service, but that would have to happen nationally first. And would that really be a bad idea? )
Yes, I know -- AAF is only intended to run between Miami and West Palm Beach, which are about 65 miles apart by rail, which is a quite practical distance for a commuter rail service, but Orlando did get talked about here as a destination that some people think is the best end-point for AAF. That is why I wrote about Orlando as the true intended end point for AAF.
Trains run on private rights of way -- which are just about worth their weight in gold, when it comes to being able to get places without having to drive and sometimes getting stuck in traffic. Rail transport is also a lot more efficient than road, and is a lot more practical and fairer to people economically.
I am very interesting in what happens next with AAF.
Thanks, everyone, for all your fascinating comments!
And thanks, Gil, for keeping these TrainWeb forums alive and interesting. I always look forward to whatever info you have found.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
The startup luxury Brightline rail service that is now expected to link Miami with West Palm Beach by the end of March 2018 has received a non-investment grade rating on about $600 million in revenue bonds that are to be issued by the Florida Development Finance Corp. on behalf of the lines owners.
Fitch Ratings, which was hired by owner All Aboard Florida-Operations to rate the bonds, last week initially rated the bonds BB-, contingent on the final pricing of the bonds.
Fitch said the bonds relatively low grade reflects Brightlines standing as a new-market, US luxury rail project that exhibits uncertain demand and revenue generation potential. The service also pointed to the uncertain nature of the markets willingness to pay for the luxury rail as opposed to use of passenger cars.
I think we should note that, first, you'll never catch me with any of those bonds in MY portfolio (I took "a little bathing" with a Lehman Brothers that was AA when I bought it, but we all know how that turned out), and secondly, if an issue of $600M doesn't have the "seal of approval" from a rating agency, good luck floating the $1.2B needed to go."all the way".
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
"Five Days and a Wake-up" - Tick, Tock, Tick Tock.
As I've previously noted at this discussion, and forgive if I reiterate previous points, I am not opposed to AAF; just skeptical. That a major rating agency has labeled one debt security issue of $600M as "junk", I wish them luck with their $1.2B. That the issues will qualify as "Private Activity" and hence are Exempt from Federal Income Tax, does not mean there is anything beyond the revenue AAF generates to meet the debt service. Now selling - "floating" - them becomes a new ball game. Sure in their Executive Suite they can talk about "a low B" rating meaning 5% today. That could well be their coupon rate. But what if the Market says that this "junk" with its "C" rating is only good for a 7.5% effective interest rate? that means the $1.8B face would only raise about $1.0B - and for that, they'd just be back for more, and the chance AAF will ever be a private sector enterprise obviated.
I think that with the railroad now sold to Mexican interests and AAF's parent, FECI, sold to Japanese, is simply complicating matters. Who says that these foreign entities have the interest in this "just might make it" venture that the one entity there when the project was first announced during '12 apparently had. FtL-W Palm "hasn't a prayer" and the best it could be is an employee training ground. Even a Miami-W Palm "Super Shuttle" I doubt has much expectation of success. Maybe, just maybe, McCoy-Miami could make a go of it, but simply "making book" with the farebox (the measurement Amtrak thinks "they're almost there") is not what private enterprise expects. The foreign ownership of both entities makes it unlikely they could ever expect a public subsidy such as a guarantee on the debt service.
These "any day now" announcements just further my skepticism.
At first, I thought AAF was a "fatten the steer" ploy to sell the railroad to the State, as they are the greatest "party in interest" to ensure the JAX Gateway remains open. Any other major East Coast port has two railroads serving it; the maritime industry does not enjoy being at the mercy of one road, which would be the case for the Florida ports if either CSX or NS got its hands on the FEC. On that point, I was evidently mistaken.
At this time, AAF's "bailout costs" are minimal. I'm certain that either a Local rail passenger agency or Amtrak themselves would take the Siemens locomotives and cars, and I'm certain Miami Central will be a going concern with or without AAF. If Neo-PANAMAX traffic is to grow for the Florida ports, then the double tracking that's been done along the Gold Coast will be put to use. The Shops are little more than a metal shell over a "pit stop" as I'm sure any "heavies" would be contracted out. The real "White Elephants" will be the two station structures at FTL and WPB. If they remain standing, they will be monuments to a business plan that went amok and B-School's will have as a case study for a long time to come.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Some positive news. Service to West Palm will start Jan. 8, sooner than the March date discussed earlier. No date for Miami but work towards Orlando to begin in 2018.
Looks like it will be a "wait until next year (2019)" for me.
I'm going to Miami end of January, but it will be a fly in Saturday, no rented car, fly back Monday. This to attend a Cleveland Orchestra concert Saturday night. Sunday is free, but I think "a bit much" to ride Metro Rail to the Airport, Tri Rail to W Palm, joyride to FtL, and reverse route.
I guess along the lines of an alternative, it could be Mover-Metro-Tri Rail to Ft. Lauderdale, walk 2.1 miles East along Broward Blvd (might be hazardous to your health) to 2nd Ave NE where the AAF station is (Mr. Google already knows), joyride to W Palm and reverse route back to Miami 16th and N. Bayshore. A two mile walk is "something I do every day".
Finally, and even if they offer introductory freebies, will anyone show up to ride other than the railfan and curiosity seeker crowd?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Tick Tock....
Four days to go.
No fares, no schedules.
Tick Tock....
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
It is strange tickets arent for sale. But, as late as last week it sounds like its still on for Jan. 8. Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
AAF has run some non-revenue training runs early this week. Here is reporting from Cox Palm Beach Post and their "heads up" business reporter, who to this admitted "newssnob" is as good as they come in Mid-Market journalism, on the apparently imminent "launch".
I'm pleased that they chose to invite the President of the FEC Historical Society for the employee training runs.
Me on the list? "don't think so".
Tick Tock....Four days left in the "week of Jan 8" to announce fares, schedules, and for that matter the Launch.
Posted by Vincent206 (Member # 15447) on :
Let's let Brightline take its time to fully train its staff and be completely prepared for the opening. Amtrak's recent history shows what can happen when training is rushed to meet a deadline.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
I couldn't agree more with your immediate thought, Mr. Vincent.
The whole "saga of Brightline" is starting to resemble a "countdown" that the Canadian National had during their '60's passenger train initiative with UAC Turbos. Every day they were running newspaper ads "10 days until Turbo"...Finally the inauguration day (that's Launch in newspeak) was there - and a set of conventional equipment was there for the run. When they finally did run them, there were reports of the trains being rescued by locomotives. The CN eventually sold the sets to Amtrak, but guess what? One of 'em derailed during delivery resulting in a "total".
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Allow me to be first to note AAF has now announced an inaugural date - This coming Saturday, January 13:
Here is reporting by Jennifer Sorentrue at the Palm Beach Post who in, again, this admitted "newssnob's" opinion is the best of the bunch reporting on this "saga".
Fair Use (startup):
...will launch introductory service on its passenger trains on Saturday , with round-trip fares starting at $20 for rides between its stations in Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach.
During the week, the company plans to run 10 round-trip trains a day between the two cities. There will be nine round-trip trains on the weekends.
Trains will depart as early as 6 a.m. and as late as 11 p.m. The schedules will differ between weekdays and weekends, Brightline said.
Introductory Try Our Train Fares will be $10 each way for a seat in one of Brightlines Smart Service cars. One-way tickets for a Select Service seat will cost $15, the company said
However, Ms. Sorentrue reports that there remains no resolution of the Quiet Zone matter. The thought of apparently twenty more trains a day blowing at the 200 some X-ings WILL cause disruptions in a lot of people's lives.
Fair Use (QZ):
...But as Brightline prepares for its launch, the company continues to draw criticism from some longtime supporters of the project who are upset that it didnt make good on a promise to create a continuous quiet zone to silence train horns along its route.
The zone will run from 15th Street in West Palm Beach south to the county line. It will silence the horns of both Brightlines trains and freight locomotives that travel along the FEC tracks
Of interest, has Broward enacted a QZ ordinance? My Father will be yelling from his grave if they haven't - even if such is in Tuxedo Park, NY.
Finally, here is the AAF website, which at this time appears to be a work in progress:
Here is a message I sent to the Palm Beach Post reporter that I believe is "the best of the bunch" reporting on AAF affairs:
May I commend you, Ms. Sorentrue.
I have been following the "Brightline Saga" since it was first announced during 2012. Admittedly I have been and still remain highly skeptical of this initiative and have shared thoughts at several discussion sites, I am glad to see they are inaugurating service in time for my annual journey "down below" (I reside in the Chicago area). Here is one discussion site, at which I post using my given name, and where thoughts have been shared by both hobbyists and those who are or have been employed within the railroad industry:
But with the above having been said, I have found your reporting of AAF affairs to be the most objective and informative of any of the South Florida publications covering the story. Thank you for your continued efforts.
Gilbert B Norman
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
OK everybody; the AAF site appears to be "up and running" and I have taken the occasion to plot out a possible AAF joyride for Sunday January 28:
Nine hours on my only free day: tempting if I were more the railfan; otherwise "too much".
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
GBN, I think you got to do it. Looks like the AAF portion is only about 2.5 hours. If you have a rental car it should pretty easy. We all await your up close and personal report.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
That's the rub, Mr. Palmland. I will not have a car. I was simply going to use Metrorail and Mover from/to the Airport. The concert venue is .25 mile from the Marriott and the Mover station is half that distance.
Now IF I make a second journey "down below" with my auto and staying in Boca, then an AAF joyride will be far more doable.
Now talk about "railfan dedication"; there's a fellow over at another site who is going to drive "on down" from South Carolina for an opening day joyride. Maybe it is from Hilton Head, but then it could be from Dillon.
But then, there are Cubs fans who have been to every Opening Day at Wrigley since they were "tykes" - and are now in the nursing home.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
IT'S OPENING DAY!!
From my preferred news source for coverage of AAF affairs:
A big yellow train at the platform, a smattering of celebratory statements and Brightlines inaugural run set off Friday morning, dignitaries aboard, for a high-speed ride down the rails to Fort Lauderdale and back.
Some politicos acknowledged disappointment the company failed to finish construction of whatevers required for horn-free running but no protesters materialized. Mayor Jeri Muoios absence was the most visible expression of city annoyance at the rail lines last-minute revelation it would continue blasting horns through intersections for at least a few more months before completing its Quiet Zone work.
Nonetheless the mood was laudatory.
When you do something this bold, this big, you cant expect everything to be perfect, City Commissioner Paula Ryan told the gathering of officials at the launch. This is going to change the feel of the city for 100 years
OK, I concede; I never dreamed this day would come, but let's be honest, volks; what we have here at present is a Disneyland ride that hasn't a prayer of providing needed transportation through the Gold Coast region. Some may hold that serving Miami will make it economically viable as a Miami-WP "Super Shuttle".
I contend otherwise.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: That's the rub, Mr. Palmland. I will not have a car. I was simply going to use Metrorail and Mover from/to the Airport. The concert venue is .25 mile from the Marriott and the Mover station is half that distance.
THIS is the time to download the Uber app to your smart phone.
1) No fare disputes with driver. Exact fare quoted online in advance & billed to your credit card once trip completed. No cash. 2) A map lets you track the progress of the driver prior to reaching you. 3) The driver has online access to the best directions to your destination. No worries that he or she may not speak English well enough to follow your directions or take you a tourist on a more expensive route.
I've used Urber a number of times in the Miami, Sunny Isles & Adventura areas & have been totally satisfied.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Mr. Nadeau, I haven't ruled out the joyride. I've thought about a rental, but good luck getting and returning one Downtown on a Sunday.
Taking a taxicab up and back to FtL (or Uber, which I've never used in this life) would be a case of how much do I value my time - taxicabs ain't cheap in Miami $83.50 EACH WAY - neither are rented autos, although I remember the days when they were.
Posted by MargaretSPfan (Member # 3632) on :
Uber and Lyft have one huge problem: they rely totally on GPS, and if you need to be picked up at a large campus ptr fscility, you cannot tell the driver exactly where to pick you up or drop you off, as GPS can only accept street addresses, and cannot accept any other info, not even "Pick me up or drop me off at the (NE or SW, etc.) corner of X St. and Y St." GPS puts a pin on the map exactly where its program tells it that street address is, and that is where the driver will go.
I know this because I have used Lyft, and it is very frustrating. There is really no substitute for a really good taxi driver who knows the area and speaks your language -- which is very hard to find these days. But it is what we all need and deserve.
GBN -- Thanks for the explanation of why neither a rental or a taxi would work for you. None of that was obvious to me. I hope you get to ride Brightline some day.
I, too,hope Bridghtline can succeed, and will wait and see what happens.
(Has the rising ocean level impacted Brightline at all? Is it likely to in the near future? Just wondering.....)
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
quote:Originally posted by MargaretSPfan: There is really no substitute for a really good taxi drier who knows the area and speaks your language -- which is very hard to find these days.
Totally off topic: Ques:What is the main difference between a New York taxi driver and a Singapore taxi driver? Ans:You know the Singapore taxi driver will be able to speak English.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
GBN, your comment about formerly inexpensive rentals in Florida reminded me of our first Florida trip with the boys in 1980. For $495 we got a RT to Orlando from Richmond in a bedroom down, coach return with a 7 day rental car, which we returned to Ft. Lauderdale. That was my last trip on a train with steam lines and no HEP. I believe it was also the last time we used a baggage car as it had our camping gear for Disney and the Keys.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
For now, the train ride is enough. Brightline appears to be proving, at least for now, that its the journey, not the destination that counts.
And thats the way it was for a lot of people on this, the first long weekend of train service for Brightline, a train that is expected to be a link between South Floridas three big coastal cities and Orlando, but for now is just a gleaming new train service with just two stops
While the reporter did not use the phrase, so far it appears that AAF is a Disneyland ride (and from what I've learned, a whale of a lot cheaper than same is up the road). That will soon subside, and what remains to be told is how many will show up to ride during the next phase - a Miami-WP "Super Shuttle".
Posted by Iron Mountain (Member # 12411) on :
In order to stay on topic I will say that I am hoping for Bright Line's success. I have a son on the east coast of Florida and nephew on the west coast. I try to schedule a once a year trip to see them but the traffic is so unpleasant that I may cease my trips. It amazes me that the people in Florida cannot see the advantage of a good system of passenger rail. I ran across an article this morning in the Daily Beast (www.thedailybeast.com/america-could-stop-half-of-train-crashes-heres-why-it-doesnt). It is not a very encouraging picture of the passenger train's near future in this country. Worth a read. As to Uber I have had one experience with the service. We like to go to Kansas City from St. Louis via Amtrak. One of our favorite trips is to see the Cardinals play the Royals. We always stay in a downtown hotel. I have used a rental car, a taxi, and on the last trip, Uber to get to the stadium. Rating the three modes of conveyance I would say that Uber has them beat on all counts. Uber picked us up promptly at our hotel. The driver, a very clean cut young man, did not use the usual interstate route, but took an alternate route free of much of the congestion. The return trip was even more remarkable. As we exited the stadium, along with thousands of people, one of our party "Ubered" and within a few nminutes a car pulled up. Different driver but similar clean cut appearance. He also took an alternate route back to our hotel. The price was much lower than rental or taxi. I should add that the Royals stadium is a fairly good distance out of the city. I realize that different cities may have different situations. We will find out this summer when we take my grandson to Washington D.C. and Philadelphia to take in the significant sights. We will be riding Lincoln Service, Capitol Limited, and regional trains.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Mr. Iron, here is a perfected link to the Daily Beast material you noted:
The Beast article is, well typical for the Beast. Mostly if you think all problems can be solved by adding somehow one more layer of control, they are there. Generally it is mostly things already said warmed over.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Regrettably, I must note the Palm Beach Post reports that there has been a second fatal Grade X-ing incident. This incident occurred at Boynton Beach which is about ten miles South of W-Palm.
Hardly saying this is about to happen, and I'd like for it not to as I'm "coming down" in a little more than a week and am considering taking a joyride Jan 28, somebody is going to say "shut 'er down" until such time that AAF provides meaningful transportation beyond Disneyland joyrides. For at the moment with these two fatalities, both occurring within Palm Beach County that has yet to enact "QZ", the "public nuisance" (that is a legal term lest we forget) could well be heard.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
The Gannett Treasure Coast Newspapers, "uh, not exactly", AAF's best friend out there, has posted this "graphic" video at their site.
Seccondly, for ready reference, here is the legal definition of the term "Public Nuisance" that I noted within the posting immediately above.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Aboard Tri Rail Miami Airport
Well I'm on my AAF joyride - well getting to it
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
From West Palm Brightline
OK, I'm impressed.
The Coach getting up here was clean and brand new. They offer comp water, and other snacks for purchase. There was an emergency stop near Lake Worth, and I thought "Oh Oh". That we were moving within two minutes suggest there wasn't a fatality. but I did note some kids "hanging around" the tracks.
Returning at 2PM, I have Business Class.
Have to add, this was my first ride on.FEC rails.
Now aboard the return (if they have train #'s, it's a State secret); Select is definitely the best - and most definitely worth the $3.50 surcharge. I just was offered a comp "grape juice".
Alright, it's a great joyride, but how much meaningful transportation does it provide? The WP Station Manager says "this quarter" for Miami. I didn't, but my reaction was, "girl, what you smokin'"?
Miami is a construction site, I couldn't really see, but I don't think there is even rail laid.
Orlando I have expressed my concerns enough - here at this site and others.
But all told this is a class act - no corners are cut.
I wish 'em well, I've never opposed AAF; just skeptical, and much as this joyride is well worth the $37.50 paid, my skepticism remains.
Posted by Vincent206 (Member # 15447) on :
How was ridership like on your trains? I would imagine a fair number of people were there to kick the tires and take a sniff of the new train smells. Offering a train that looks good with stations that are convenient while providing a high frequency schedule with good on-board service will convince plenty of people to switch from driving.
The limited schedule isn't going to be a profit maker but it might help to overcome some of the resistance from the communities along the FEC right-of-way between Palm Beach and Orlando. Let's hope that bike riders will stop driving onto the tracks when the trains are rolling by.
The connection to Orlando will be critical for Brightline's success. Whatever local traffic they can gain between Miami and Palm Beach will be beneficial but it's the connection to Orlando that will determine success or failure.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Glad to hear you made it GBN, well done.
Also good to hear Brightline is the real deal as far as equipment and service. Financial viability - to be determined.
If there is a future for passenger rail in the U.S., this is it. It is not - chronically late trains with slightly seedy equipment, unhappy employees on tri-weekly schedules that is dependent on the whims of congress for funding.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Aboard Metrorail at the Airport, leaves 516P.
Ridership "pretty good", Mr.Vincent. Again, there is possibility this is the classiest act anywhere in North America.
There were plenty of cops along the ROW, but somebody has to pay for 'em.
Of any place on the existing route that I think the fatality is waiting to happen is Delray Beach. The FEC bisects an entertainment district, and some frat boy, even if in his 30's who never grew up is going to have had a little firewater ....this will cost AAF "heap big wampum".
So how long they will sustain these joyrides has to be questioned - and how long will it be until the public safety community says "shut 'er down". "The people have had their joyrides". "Come on back when you have meaningful transportation to offer such as serving Miami."
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Now that I'm "back in the barn" and no longer having a "Lady in Blue" giving me a "no-no stare" for being on my phone ten seconds after they shut the door, I have to say the joyride was worth every penny spent on it.
From my looks at Miami Central, and especially since Metrorail gave me "a bit more time to stare at it" owing to some inexplicable delay (couldn't hear the station announcements and half of them were in Spanish) that "started to have me concerned" about making my flight (compared to ORD, TSA at MIA is "Keystone Kops"), but no problem in the end (United, being an MIA "bit player", has the "oh SO convenient" gates}, it won't be done for a year. This especially the case being the Class Act I found AAF to be, doesn't want their passengers walking over construction planks.
But reiterating, I hold grave suspicions that it's never going to get further than MIA-WPB - and that is an unsustainable business model.
Brightline, the high-speed passenger train now running between Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach, could have to spend about $349 million on safety improvements.
Thats after lawmakers and others, upset over the railways dangers, leveraged recent train-related deaths to push for more safety measures.
Republicans Sen. Debbie Mayfield of Melbourne and Rep. Erin Grall of Vero Beach held a press conference Tuesday to express sympathy for those who died and to further stress the need for Brightline to comply with federal train regulations at the expense of the companyand not taxpayers.
The train has been involved in four fatal accidents in which pedestrians or bicyclists were killed. Three accidents occurred during Brightlines promotional runs, one of which was ruled a suicide.
The fourth, involving a pedestrian who attempted to cross the tracks, occurred last Wednesday in Boynton Beach.
I cringed as the train went through an entertainment district at Delray Beach and at track speed. Volks, something IS GOING to happen there; too many people stumbling around having had too much firewater. Congested highways are generally marked for 35mph; and not 79mph.
I will not be surprised if, after the joyride thrills wear off, they shut down until Miami Central is opened. I highly doubt if the MIA-WPB "Super Shuttle" model will be sustainable.
I remain doubtful if it will ever be built Northward to Orlando. The opposition won't give up, and a fatality a week gives call to the issues addressed in the linked article. Further, I doubt if their business plan factored having to float "junk bonds" to build it out. That they apparently cannot float "investment grade" bonds will only raise the cost of the project without generating any additional revenue.
My advice, "get on down" and get your joyrides in.
Posted by Vincent206 (Member # 15447) on :
If this type of behavior is commonplace in south Florida then it's not really "Brighthouse" that's acting irresponsibly or negligently. Apparently some public education and traffic enforcement is needed to get the public to understand the dangers of driving or cycling around flashing crossing arms.
Posted by Vincent206 (Member # 15447) on :
If Brightline is as impressive and well done as Mr. Norman says, it will create momentum for intercity rail that Amtrak hasn't been able to generate in 40+ years. Mayors and business leaders in other parts of the country will be taking their joy rides and wondering "why can't we have this?" Unfortunately, the answer will usually be that there isn't any available rail infrastructure to build another Brightline. But people will see that just because Amtrak has failed, failed and failed to establish a meaningful intercity rail system outside of the NEC, it doesn't mean that it can't be done. I would expect many of the shelved proposals to get another look. Why can't Los Angeles to Las Vegas, Atlanta to Charlotte, Houston to Dallas and Chicago to almost-anywhere-within 300 miles be served with modern, high(er) speed trains?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Although I'm not going to a concert at Kravis this year while I'm "down below" Feb 18-20 (the Chicago Symphony will be performing there, but it will be the same program that I heard last Friday at Orchestra Hall). I could possibly put Brightline to use to get from Ehh to Bee.
Here's how: drive to Ft. Lauderdale (from the Holiday Inn at Turnpike Exit 75), park at the "intro-free" garage, take Brightline to WP, walk to Ruth's Chris adjacent to Kravis, early Dinner (on my own; like to be gone from restaurants before they fill up), take Brightline back to FTL (that gives an hour to get .02 BAC out of me from any Grape Juice I had), drive back to hotel. Maybe I'll go Business NB and have a "comp" Grape Juice aperitif, SB Coach so "I'm led not into temptation".
Volks, I booked a ticket for my Feb 19 "joyride to chow". Up 355P in Select. Back 7P in Smart. Booking went very smooth.
What's another $22.50 when I've already laid out an "only sort of refundable" $814 for Auto-Train!!!
I have to give them credit for a smooth rollout. I'm not opposed to AAF; I'm just skeptical. They haven't a prayer if all they build is MIA-WPB (after seeing MIA first hand last week, I say a year to go, even if they are saying next Quarter, i.e by June 30) and only a slight one if MIA-ORL is ever completed.
All I ask is keep the Delray Beach "revelers" away from my trains. Anyone else around here know of that entertainment district at Atlantic Ave? The Late Randy Resor once did as his Mother lived in Delray. He pointed out to me how it parallels the FEC and said before Brightline was ever dreamed of "there's going to be a moose-goosing here one of these days".
Again I say; "get on down" and get your joyrides in.
Posted by Vincent206 (Member # 15447) on :
Were you able to book a specific seat when you made the reservation? One of the perpetual frustrations of Cascades riders is the inability to book a seat reservation until 30 minutes before departure. Of course, the Cascades trainsets have a variety of layouts depending if the set is owned by Washington or Oregon or if it's the Las Vegas trainset or if it's a Superliner substituting for one of the Talgos. Brightline at least has identical seating layouts in all its trainsets.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Absolutely, Mr. Vincent.
NB Coach 1 Seat 39 (Select)
SB Coach 3 Seat 18 (Smart)
I give them much credit for having "thought of everything".
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Volks, they appear to have "issues" with their ticketing system. I opened my American Express page and, voila, what did I see!
Two tickets for one me - same seat for both trains.
Here's what they have presently posted at their "chat" box:
quote: If you have duplicate Brightline charges, please know that we are aware of the issue, and you will be issued a refund. If you made a booking and have not received an email with your ticket confirmation, its possible your reservation did not go through. If you made a booking and are unsure if you have a ticket, please reply back with HELP.
Oh well, what's another $22.50 (Select up Smart back less Veteran discount) on a trip that I will likely run up $3K.
....and maybe, just maybe, I'll see a credit on AMEX
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
The man injured by a Brightline train in Wilton Manors on Thursday had attempted to kill himself when he walked along a stretch of tracks and lay on the metal awaiting an approaching train, police said.
The 48-year-old Broward County resident, whom police have not identified, endured non-fatal injuries when he was struck by the passenger line around 8 p.m. in the 1200 block of Northeast 24th Street. He was taken to Broward Health Medical Center to receive medical treatment and mental health assistance, according to a statement releaed by Wilton Manors Police.
Oh well, at least this one was non-fatal.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
I have now been able to cancel one of the duplicate tickets Brightline "sold" me. So apparently, they have addressed the "bugs, glitches, programming errors" whatever.
Now let's see if American Express gets the word.
So at this time, or so far as they are concerned, it's one ticket for one me Feb 19 North at 355P in Select, return 7P in Smart.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Mr. Norman, it seems to me youre again becoming a railfan, albeit confined to Brightline!
Hope the general public has the same reaction. I don t recall if you mentioned any food being available and its quality. Have a good trip.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
No credit as of this morning, but as any "shopaholic" around here (Miss Mary perchance?) knows, both the merchants and the card issuers "have their way of taking their time".
We shall see how this one plays out; on Monday at Penney's, I bought a pair of Black Florsheim shoes. Yesterday, after heaving the box and Republic Services had come by, I looked in my closet, and there was a perfectly serviceable pair of dusty Black Florsheims that I'd forgotten I had (my closet is about the same size as that found in a hotel room - not some lighted walk in "stage"). I took them back to Penney's where some low level "Customer Service Rep" said "sorry Charlie, can't take 'em back - no box". I then asked for a Manager. I got a Supervisor who was in radio contact with the Mgr. I offered to pay a reasonable restock fee, but all I heard was "never been worn" (truth; save the one minute I had "tried 'em on"). He then proceeds to issue me a credit for $97.19. I had looked at their website to see if there was anything in a color I needed (Tan), there was (Eastland brand for all I cared) so I asked this 20 something "Management Trainee" could he help me with a catalog sale? "Of course, that's what I'm here for". He did all the punching and clicking for me and out comes the $102.60 charge, which is already posted to my Capital One Visa.
The $97.19 credit? well let's call it a "work in progress".
Moral of all this unrelated stuff; "charges first, credits whenever."
Posted by Ocala Mike (Member # 4657) on :
That's called playing with OPM, Gil (Other People's Money)!
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
For the record,GBN, Mary is decidedly not a shopaholic. Now, a quit, yarn, or fabric store is another matter. Fortunately. those stores are likely to exist in any town where there is a rail yard, station, or MR hobby store. That way everyone is happy on road trips.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Paddukki Kentucky for both rail and quilting aficionados.
When those quilters come to town for an annual powwow, they will fill up hotels in Marion IL -50 miles away.
Know so first hand.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
From Holiday Inn Express Boca Raton
Brightline did credit my account for the duplicate ticket they issued me.
But today has not been it for me and electronics. After having Lunch with Ocala Mike in his namesske, I went to a gas station and I couldn't get my card to work the pumps. They said something wrong with them. Since I tried three times, Capital One locked my Visa. After a phone call with C1, they unlocked it and I got gas - at another station.
Now I get down here and the hotel is full - and the key for the one room they had left does not work. So the desk clerk has to escort me to it - and any time I leave, I'll have to be escorted back. They say the Building Engineer is on his way in to see what he can do - we will see about that! I went to a bar adjacent to the hotel for some Grape Juice and also to try out the Visa - it worked.
So, happy arrivals in Boca.
Posted by Ocala Mike (Member # 4657) on :
Glad you made it safely, more or less, to Boca, Gil. At least we had a pretty good lunch at Chefs Di Napoli. Safe journey the rest of the way!
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
From Holiday Inn Express Boca Raton
The key matter was resolved this morning. This afternoon it will be Brightline to West Palm and a steak at Ruth's Chris.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
From Ruth's Chris West Palm Beach
The Northbound in Select is now in the books. The car was substantially full, and the trip was without incident. I still fear a WHACKAMOLE at Delray Beach - it will be some hotshot lawyer whose family will "take em for everything".
The Select Attendant, Miss Brooke, was exceptionally courteous - kind of like a Flight Attendant you remember for good reasons.
I realize this is an introductory period. The trains are new and the staff enthusiastic. But this enthusiasm does not translate into a sustainable private sector operation. Obviously no one can hold "they're making it" during this "intro" phase. While their fares planned "post intro" are a State secret", I think them to be double the "intros".
Access to Miami will certainly give them business beyond joyrides. With the Miami location right with the Miami judiciary, some Palm Beach attorneys will find it convenient.
I continue to hold the only "prayer" they have for private sector operation is to complete the route to MCO. They could well have a B-School Model showing "them making it", but did such contemplate the funding they would need and the "junk bond" rating translating to higher debt service costs than anyicipated.
Even if they choose not to lay the 40 miles of track and.offer a bus transfer in it's place, will that cut it?
Sure I've enjoyed these joyrides on an.outfit that puts customer service.on a plateau with air travel during the '50's, but I still say "get on down and get your joyrides in".
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
At about 12:30 within the link is a focus on the Delray Beach Atlantic Avenue X-ing at which I am fearful "something bad" is going to happen:
This X-ing I think represents a far greater hazard than do either illustrated in Ft. Lauderdale. Broward Blvd is immediately South of the station, so any BL train has stopped, and when the Miami service begins (I still hold such will be closer to Xmas than Easter), the NB trains, Freight and Passenger, will be approaching the station at a Restricted speed. While nothing beyond their self-centered idiocy, can explain those "not exactly homeless or on welfare" folk from climbing over the freight train at 1st St SE, any train is moving over that X-ing at Restricted speed.
Despite my absolute astonishment that I have held throughout these pages, AAF is moving forward. Actually serving Miami, as well as inevitably charging "market" fares (my guess for Miami-West Palm will be $45 Coach, $65 Business each way), the hemorrhage the operation has to be experiencing will be curtailed to some extent.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
We just returned from our annual visit to central Florida to see a few Atlanta Braves' spring training games and have a few good meals. Our hotel was about 5 min from the ballpark (on the south side of Disney property). I was so thankful that we did not have to set foot on I-4 until we were well clear of the area.
Each time we passed over it, traffic was at a standstill. The baseball announcers were talking about how much the Braves hated visiting teams in the Tampa area. A one hour drive in the early morning was a three hour drive on the return. Other teams have already moved from central Florida and the Braves will follow in 2020 to a new stadium being built near Sarasota (Northport)that only a few months ago had cows grazing in the fields.
A new development, Villages-West, is being constructed that will have 25,000 homes when completed. One of the locals we spoke with said Florida is way too overdeveloped, water supply will be a problem, the Everglades will be history, and there has been little investment in infrastructure. Paradise lost?
If Brightline is successful in building to Orlando airport, it won't be long before they continue on to the west coast. It can't come soon enough.
Posted by Vincent206 (Member # 15447) on :
I remember in 2009-10 Ray LaHood and the Department of Transportation were thinking that HSR between Orlando and Tampa was a good idea. Unfortunately Rick Scott didn't agree. I wonder if Florida HSR would be operational in 2018 if it had received the green light in 2010. Or would it be stuck in the grip of bureaucratic inertia requiring conceptual studies, scoping and preliminary engineering studies?
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Brightline stations may soon be renamed by a corporate sponsor.
Patrick Goddard, president and COO of the company, told the Greater Miami Chamber of Commerce that negotiations were in progress to sell station and train naming rights, according to Miami Today
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Vincent, the government sponsored projects don't have a great track record but at least it would have been started by now. However, if Brightline is the real deal and can actually do what they say as far as the Orlando extension, they would in the long run do a better job than a project led by the feds
You gotta admit, what they've done so far is pretty impressive. I think they have even made our Mr. Norman a reluctant supporter. One thing is clear, the market in Florida is there. A bad traffic situation will only get worse.
In fact, to leap frog to another forum topic, you could make the case that one real purpose of the LD network it to provide connectivity to the burgeoning state, or private, sponsored corridor services. Who knows, maybe one day Georgia will wake up and doing something about Atlanta metro area and surrounding cities.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
Palmland, it is not just traffic. It is also being able to get around without driving. Remember, this is South Florida. Lots of transplanted Yankees, many from the New York and other densely populated areas with lots of public transportation. These are people used to taking public transport. Add to that, many are retirees dealing with or approaching being unable to drive, or in a status where they should not be doing more than the most minimal driving. These people form a growing market for Brightline and any other public transportation.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Cox's Palm Beach Post published an article regarding the "less than stellar" Brightline ridership observed by a team of their reporters.
Fair Use:
Before dawn on a Tuesday in late March, a four-car Brightline train capacity 240 pulled out of the companys West Palm Beach station and headed south to Fort Lauderdale.
Just eight passengers were on board.
A few weeks later, an early-morning Sunday train carrying six people made the same trip.
While Brightlines service has been touted as a model for the future of passenger rail in the United States, opponents have questioned whether the company can make money with so many empty seats, with one even derisively referring to them as ghost trains.
Not all the trains run near-empty. A Palm Beach Post review of ridership found at least three trains during a six-week period that carried more than 100 passengers, including a Saturday afternoon run in March with 144.
Eight trains carried 20 or fewer passengers.
Brightline doesnt release ridership counts. To get a glimpse into the rail lines early progress, a dozen Palm Beach Post reporters rode 44 randomly selected trains over a six-week period and counted how many people were on board.
On average, 50 riders took the trains reviewed by The Post, enough to fill about 20 percent of the seats.
Naturally, this "introductory period" could only have low ridership for which I'm certain that AAF management was ready to accept. But unfortunately at this time, I can only conclude the history of AAF is that it's providing "Disneyland rides on the cheap" - and, party at fault notwithstanding, killing people in the process. The opening of Miami Central, which could happen closer to Easter than Xmas and contrary to my prediction, could well produce enough passengers actually using the service to get from "Ehh to Bee" to justify it's continuation as a public accommodation rather than what could well at present meet the legal standard of Public Nuisance.
Posted by MargaretSPfan (Member # 3632) on :
Mr. Norman -- Why is Brightline at fault in any way for any of those deaths? By your logic, no one should be allowed to drive motor vehicles -- because so many people get killed by those motor vehicles.
And transit planners and engineers know that not providing frequent service will keep many people from choosing to take transit. Transit providers therefore provide frequent service, even though some trains or buses will have few riders. That is not proof that the entire service is unjustified.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Well, eight more days until service to Miami Central begins as the Palm Beach Post and many another outlets report.
If anyone can "get on down", joyrides are going for $3.00 this weekend.
NBCs Today show had a segment on Brightline service. Presumably this was from the press run for the Miami startup. It was mostly positive and the conversation with the Brightline rep talked about the possibility of this type of services in other parts of the country. He also maintained the service would be profitable. Anderson must have been smiling.
The shows host wondered why we didnt have more trains like this like Europe. Maybe the country is ready to support this even if your tax dollars are required.
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
quote:Originally posted by palmland: The shows host wondered why we didnt have more trains like this like Europe. Maybe the country is ready to support this even if your tax dollars are required.
Maybe a closer look should be taken at this whole "like Europe" stuff. A closer look at a lot of the Europe stuff helps you understand what our ancestors left. There is so much overlooked either intentionally or unintentionally with all this enthrallment with things European. I will take what we have here, warts and all.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
quote:Originally posted by palmland: NBCs Today show had a segment on Brightline service.
Here we are:
NBC News Posted by MargaretSPfan (Member # 3632) on :
First. let me say that I am quite pleased that Brightline is getting positive media coverage. that is great! It is way past time for the media to cover railroads and give them a positive slant.
But.... Brightline can be "profitable"? How can that be if all capital costs are included?
And taxes are always required for all public services. No exceptions. And this indirectly includes Brightline, which has already gotten $600 million in tax-free Florida bond money, with more needed, which will probably be granted.
I very much hope that Brightline gets good ridership. It is always wonderful when we have decent choices in modes of transportation.
Highball,. Brightline! Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Margaret, I've come to hold that the public may never know if AAF is profitable as a rail passenger entity. This real-estate play hinted at by NBC, is of course ripped from Henry Flagler's playbook. That AAF is there and keeps providing the high level of service they have to date, both occupancy and rental rates in the buildings surrounding AAF stations will benefit. This is an argument that it should serve Downtown Orlando rather than the Airport - need there be another San Diego Lindbergh?
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Is it time for our intrepid Brightline rider, Mr. Norman, to return to FL and give us a first hand report on the new Miami service and this innovative partnership with Lyft? Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
I'm all booked for a Cleveland Orchestra concert in Miami next January 26 (fly and Metrorail/mover). Brightline "Voyages 3&4" will wait until then.
Lyft/Uber? what's that (whoops, I am a veteran of one Uber ride February from Crowne/Ravinia to Capitol Grille in Dunwoody GA - wasn't my idea, but it was without incident).
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
"There could be something" to the contention that AAF, even if it in itself is not profitable, is to be a "feed" for enhanced development by FECI:
Call it one of the most expensive secrets in County Hall: The company behind Brightline has submitted a detailed proposal to build Miami-Dade a new civil courthouse next to the existing one on Miamis Flagler Street. But the company demanded that the mayor not share key details including the potential cost to the public.
This confidentiality request severely limits the Administrations ability to transparently inform the Board of the impact of pursuing the unsolicited proposal, Mayor Carlos Gimenez wrote in an April 4 memo urging commissioners to reject the plan to replace the 1928 courthouse with one built next door.
Critical information pertaining to the financial impact of this unsolicited proposal cannot be communicated in this report for the benefit of the Board or Miami-Dade County taxpayers, Gimenez said.
Now what I believe will be of great interest to the real estate community will be to what extent AAF can influence redevelopment within Overtown. To be polite and politically correct, let's just say Overtown is a "no man's land", which starts immediately West of Miami Central.
AAF made, I think, bold start when they chose to locate their HQ to the West of Miami Central. The potential is certainly there, but the minority residents will be quick to howl "gentrification" (interesting scripted series now being aired on Starz is "Vida", which explores that issue in East LA), but let's note that FECI, Japanese ownership aside, seems to get their way up in Tallahassee.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
I just got "bombarded" by a Brightline marketing survey. I did something "I never do" - responded.
I gave an overall rating of "9" (favorable, of 10) and my written comment was "The Brightline rail travel experience emulates that found overseas".
Anyone who has followed my material around here knows I'm not into the "aewsome", "great" and "super" kind of comments.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
To my pleasant surprise, as part of the Indenture relating to the $600M Private Activity Bonds floated, AAF is required to disclose revenue and ridership for each Quarter. They released such for the First Quarter this past Friday - and look who reported them (presumably straight):
..Brightline carried 74,780 riders and collected $663,700 in ticket revenue in its first 2 months of operation, according to financial documents released Friday.
The documents which offered one of the first public glimpses into the private company's financials revealed that ridership "exceeded expectations," according to Brightline, despite recent controversies over safety and use of public funding.
Ridership grew each month as a result of increased awareness and demand for the companys service," Brightline said in its quarterly unaudited financial statement provided to the Municipal Securities Rulemaking Board.
Month-by-month ridership and revenue from Jan 19, when initial service began between West Palm Beach and Fort Lauderdale, to March 31, the end of the first quarter, was:
January: 17,800 passengers, $146,500
February: 24,100 passengers, $220,000
March: 32,900 passengers, $297,300
However, lest we forget, AAF is still offering dirt cheap "introductory fares". I highly doubt if they have compiled enough historical data to institute demand pricing, although I'm sure they want to "get there".
So their first venture into "market pricing" will be "like the old days". "Here's the fare; take it or leave it" (my guess: OW MIA-WP $50 Coach, $65 Business). Who knows what effect that will have on ridership.
Continuing with a "lest we wonder"; the Florida Turnpike will soon switch to demand pricing systemwide. The "Lexus Lanes" on the 95 are already there (BTW, this Lexus owner doesn't go near them - oh, and don't the various Authorities love EZ-Pass; especially when signed up for automatic refills), so the market can certainly justify higher fares.
Finally though, a rub. The free parking at the AAF station garages is now $6/da, but that certainly is a dirt cheap rate. How they control that you actually have ridden a train, I know not - but I think they should.
Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
[QUOTE]Originally posted by palmland:
If Brightline is successful in building to Orlando airport, it won't be long before they continue on to the west coast. It can't come soon enough.
************************************** I think an area of the country ripe for a Brightline-like train clone would be Fort Collins-Denver-Colorado Springs-Pueblo.
Watching the baseball game between the Giants and Rockies, the other night, I was impressed by the shots of the Denver light rail train arriving at the ballpark.
Richard
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Off the AAF rails, but it appears Florida Sun Pass has had themselves a little SNAFU:
ORLANDO, Fla. - Drivers using SunPass on state tollways are still not seeing charges on their bills and are continuing to have problems with the website.
The Florida Department of Transportation has now given the contractor a deadline to fix the issues -- or else
I also got a "we're working on it email from FDOT.
Does that sound like they have had a major screwup or does that sound like they have had a major screwup?
I think that translates to we can't tell you what your account balance is. You should have signed up for automatic replenishment.
Oh well, I won't be "down below" with my auto until next February. They'd better have it fixed by then, because I don't believe in automatic replenishment, or for that matter, any kind of automatic debits to any account of mine.
As I noted, it is my understanding that the Florida Turnpike will soon go to demand pricing. The I-95 "Lexus Lanes" through Dade County are already there as are same in the Orlando area. AAF can expect those "Lanes" to be extended through Broward and Palm Beach Counties. Even if they allow 70mph in such (Texas has some with "reasonable and proper" speed limits) v. 55 in the regular lanes, this will only justify AAF charging NEC fares. For comparison, NYP-TRE is $46 Coach $70 Business.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
One of my pet peeves: we often travel to Atlanta and the northeast to see family, Florida for baseball, and Colorado to see relatives. They all have different toll systems. If they insist on this, the systems should talk to each other. I dont need a windshield full of transponders! Its enough to make you want to take the train rather than drive.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Mr. Palmland, I only have two. One is an I-Pass that is fully exchangeable with EZ-Pass and the noted Florida Sun Pass, which I've now learned exchanges with the Georgia Peach Pass and the NC Quick Pass (crazy as it sounds, the SC Pal Pass exchanges with the Texas toll roads, but none other).
Yes, wouldn't it be nice if all toll highway agencies could come together and have one X-ponder?
Too many egos would get in the way.
Posted by palmland (Member # 4344) on :
Today's Trains Newswire confirms what we have heard:
"Last month, Orange County commissioners greenlighted an environmental permit allowing Brightline to begin building a 125-mph corridor through 106 acres of thick brush and wetlands immediately adjacent to the Beachline Expressway east of Orlando International Airport."
Construction to start later this year with 2021 completion.
And Brightline intent to build on to Tampa also confimred:
"An unsolicited proposal in March 2018 by Brightline to the Florida Department of Transportation suggested the state create a mechanism for private developers to lease the median of I-4 and portions of either state routes 528 or 417 between the Orlando airport and Tampa. On June 22, Florida Gov. Rick Scott did just that, announcing a request for proposals to lease the property and construct a rail line."
Interesting that they mention highway 528 and 417. Seems like it's more or less direct route using 528 from the airport to I-4, unless they intend to go east on 528 to 417 then circle south getting to I-4 near Celebration.
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