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We will taking the PALMETTO from D.C. to Charleston and then SILVER METEOR on the return from Charleston to D.C. I am confused with the "dining car" options. What are the options? Trip is planned for the first week of April. THANKS for replies!
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Your Southward Palmetto journey is simple enough - Snack Bar; regardless of Coach or Business Class.
Northward, the Meteor leaves Charleston after all Food & Beverage is closed. However, for Breakfast, you will have both Snack Bar and full-service Diner available. If traveling Sleeper, your Breakfast is "comp".
But the regretable is that, in the interest of cost cutting, Amtrak food is now at "airline food" levels. The days that a friend (decd 1986) could state "I've never had a bad meal on Amtrak" are over - just as are the days when the (regulated) airline industry competed for your business on the quality of their food.
Ocala Mike Member # 4657
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Clue me in, Gil or anyone. I will be traveling sleeper on the Meteor, single in a roomette. Since I'm not a great "mixer," can I have my meals brought to me? What is the protocol - 25% tip, or what?
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Dave, one has to go back to "Pioneer Days" for a full service Diner on a daylight only train.
Only food service on the Palmetto is Snack Bar fare.
Jerome Nicholson Member # 3116
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Ocala Mike: One might expect the sleeping car attendantt to bring food to your room on rwquest, but this depends on the mood of the attendant. Dinner was brought to my room on the Silver Star once, while the attendant on the California Zephyr years ago did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for me!
Ocala Mike Member # 4657
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Thanks, Jerome - Guess I'll just wing it and feel things out.
RRRICH Member # 1418
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Jerome -- I have also had sleeping car attendants on the CZ "years ago" (1980's) who did "absolutely nothing" for me -- may have been the same crews......
dpudave Member # 162885
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Ocala Mike: Perhaps my recent experience is pertinent: Due to a recent injury, I'm using a cane and cannot do stairs. Both ways on the CZ, the attendants cheerfully brought my meals to the family bedroom. I tipped generously. I missed the diner. I'm not much for mixing either, but the people you will meet are often amazing. d
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Dave, sorry to learn you have a disability. But that you do will make them "snap to" and bring you chow in your room.
Amtrak does not need a disabled person writing an elected representative putting them on the carpet.
dpudave Member # 162885
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Mr Gilbert, I suspect you may be right that my cane secured "snap to service." I hope to throw the blasted thing away in a few months. I have two thoughts: First: in my 14 LD trips, all in sleepers, the attendants have all been pretty good, with a few exceptionally good. Second: if everyone in a sold out sleeper requests "room service," I suspect no one eats, or only after long delays, with just one person on duty. My lady went alone to the diner and had a terrific time of it. d
Jerome Nicholson Member # 3116
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Amtrak does not need a disabled person writing an elected representative putting them on the carpet.
At least when I did write Amtrak, they refunded the cost of my first class ticket. Maybe to avoid a letter to my Representative?
dpudave Member # 162885
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Mr. Gilbert B Norman, I fear I slipped a gear, not for the first time, I assure you. Please overlook my addressing you as Mr Gilbert--he, who was, a much revered science teacher in my youth. Among many other things, he forced me, truly a bone headed kid, to always edit my work. Somewhere he's just marked down a minus next to my name in his grade book. No "grade inflation" in Mr Gilbert's class. Apologies. d
palmland Member # 4344
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Dave-I ride the Palmetto quite often and, as noted by Mr. Norman, it is cafe only with very mediocre and somewhat pricey food. You may want to bring your own. If you plan on eating before you get to Washington, it's best to grab something before you leave Richmond. Usually a mob boarding the train there. I get on in Florence, SC and often get a Subway carry out for lunch as it's much fresher.
And, if you're riding on the weekend, it's worth it to spring for Business class as it will get quite crowded as you get into NC and VA. For some reason if the loading is fairly modest, the crew will often close off a coach and make everyone sit in the remaining cars. Guess that makes it easier for them.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Within this NARP Hotline , a "delivery schedule" of the sixty remaining V-II's is addressed.
I'm inclined to say "consider the source".
yukon11 Member # 2997
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I wonder, with time, if we will still have a dining car on Amtrak LD trains. PRIIA 2015 says that Amtrak must show that food and beverage services pay for itself by 2020.
I recently read an article that suggested, along with the Silver Star, trains such as the Texas Eagle or City of New Orleans might consider eliminating dining car services. Only speculation, but could it happen? Just having a snack bar or cafe car for food, in my opinion, would convince me to only ride Amtrak for short commutes, no LD trains whatsoever.
If they keep the dining cars, I have heard rumors that complimentary meals, in the dining car, for sleeping car passengers might be eliminated. I would not mind if the food would take a significant upswing as far as quality is concerned. If not restaurant quality at least have it approximate that of the dining car food on the old, private passenger trains. If so, as a sleeping car passenger, I would gladly pay for such meals. Some say the cost of a sleeper would then be less, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Richard
PullmanCo Member # 1138
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Richard,
At the rate per night Amtrak offers for a section or a compartment, they'd darn well better offer meals in the fee.If not, my business is gone forever.
I've not noticed the room charge to change very much, unlike a coach seat. At the price Amtrak charges for 18-42 square feet, I can stay at the very best of hotels most anywhere in the world.
BTW, I was driving south on I-55 from Chicago to Springfield, enroute KC yesterday. Caught the northbound Texas Eagle north of Lincoln. She had a diner in the consist. Now, as far as the menu, dunno...
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Absent someone holding a cap pistol to my head, in which case I would survive here (rail) to LA in Coach - or maybe same (air) to Australia - I could "make it" on the Silver Star (christened the Starvation at another site), say Tampa to Richmond, without a Diner. Before boarding, I'd stop by ABC Liquors for "a nice bottle" of Grape juice, and thence at a Subway for a Foot Long. Final stop would be at a Dunkin for tomorrow's Breakfast. Reportedly ice is still available in the Sleepers and even when the V-I's are reconfigured to that of the V-II's, they will have an in-room sink. So my Grape Juice will be properly chilled. In the morning, I'd buy a coffee from the Cafe' if such were not available in the Sleeper. Richmond would be enough of that; after collecting my rented auto, first stop would be a full service restaurant such as Red Robin.
That I could survive, otherwise I know where Mr. Pullman cometh from.
Continuing, I trust it is noted how 58-59, City's, menus have been downgraded. 59 departing CHI is only a sandwich. Breakfast arriving CHI on 58 is choice of some kind of "Continental Breakfast" or some pork biscuit that I'm sure would make Cracker Barrel's varietal seem gourmet.
Finally, let it be noted that I'm not expecting anything more on Auto-Train "Voyage 23" this Feb 6 than the vile Short Ribs last year (Amtrak Director of Culinary Services - bet there is someone titled such @60 Mass - you could ask United's ORD caterer how they prepare theirs). Considering my 75 yo age and that my buggy is now middle age (45K), future trips down below could well be on "the Friendly Skies of United" and Voyage 24 will simply be a "not happening".
yukon11 Member # 2997
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Mr. Norman: I think it would take a .44 magnum to my head to take a LD train in coach...sleepers or no train trip for me.
Mr. Pullman: I agree 100% with your first paragraph. For the cost of a sleeper (especially a bedroom) I think they should serve free lobster thermidor with a glass of Kistler wine. I recently read where passengers in sleepers are, roughly, 15% of the total train passengers but they provide 35-37% of total passenger revenue.
However, I still would pay for the dinner if it were of good quality. Here is an article, from a couple of years ago, by Fred Fraily:
"To make this test fail, Amtrak needs to do nothing. Put all the burden on the existing cafe lounge attendant and the lines will reach legendary lengths. Keep the menu in the cafe lounge the same and sleeping car passengers will leave and never come back. The entrees in the cafe lounge are hamburgers and hot dogs wrapped in plastic and individual pizzas. The burgers and dogs come out of the microwave with the buns saturated in hot liquid from the meats. They are inedible from the get-go."
Seriously, I can't fathom the existence of nothing more than a cafe or snack car on a long distance train. Passengers are going to want a nice hot meal for, at least, breakfast and dinner if they are on the train for 2 days. Could some sort of catering service be the answer?
Richard
palmland Member # 4344
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The key to surviving the CONO is to have a really good dinner in Chicago before boarding. Then a nightcap in the darkened lounge to see the skyline recede and, more importantly, to help with the rough track. We're ok with a continental breakfast as that's similar to home and at lunch there's the ever popular angus burger that's ok. It's stil the best way to get to New Orleans as the arrival time fits well with dinner at Galatoire's or Commander's Palace. And, passing through small southern towns that seem like something Faulkner would write about is enjoyable, especially when viewed from the normally sparsely populated lounge.
But is it worth the price? No. I do wonder why Amtrak doesn't experiment with having good food that you pay for but with lower sleeper fares. I don't think more labor expense is required for Amtrak - just pay a few bucks more for really good catered food as in 1st class air perhaps with the SCA bringing it to your room.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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quote:Originally posted by palmland: Then a nightcap in the darkened lounge to see the skyline recede and, more importantly, to help with the rough track
And Mr. Palmland, with the Sleeper placed on the head with only the T-Dorm as buffer, the "hear the whistle blow". Since I'm not all that much foamer, that is a real detractor from the night of sleep you paid "heap big" to enjoy.
quote:Originally posted by yukon11: Could some sort of catering service be the answer?
Over at another site I visit, there has been extensive discussion on that very point. The consensus is that such would never work. Ignoring any labor related matters, who is to say the LD train would be scheduled to stop where a major player in the industrial catering business was located? Would a string of local restaurants have the capacity to handle 150 or so meals delivered to the train and be of consistent quality? Now what if the train is late? We could go on.
Airlines of course are a different story. Possibly back in China Clipper days, perhaps there was prepared in flight food service, but all I've ever known (my first flight was during '57) is catered food service. But lest we forget, the food comes from one central location with high volume. Hot meals are delivered hot, and since they will be served within an hour of take off, that is how they will stay. I think most "mainline" aircraft have some kind of refractory oven (no microwave; that interferes with the NAVAIDS) even if for nothing more than to heat the peanuts served in the Premium cabin.
sbalax Member # 2801
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Mr. Norman--
The in-house "Sky Chef" says Premium Cabin meals are not boarded hot but, rather, ready to be heated. Same in the back but there's not much that's heated these days -- a few breakfast items and a couple of sandwiches.
If you are getting warm peanuts upfront, complain. It should be mixed nuts in that little ramekin.
The same source says the CO DC10's had Microwaves for awhile but only for making popcorn for the Pub and heating meals that weren't to the customers liking as far as temp went. He doesn't think that the 747's ever had them and they disappeared at some point from the 10's and the popcorn was boarded pre-popped in big plastic bags.
We've been on a couple of flights in the past 20 years where there was actually some cooking going on. United and Continental both used to cook standing rib roasts from raw for First Class and QANTAS did eggs to order and even toast.
We are flying on the new SWISS 777-300ER ORD-ZRH in September. We used UA miles for Business Class (Continuing on to AMS) for only 75,000 miles each. It should be a nice experience.
BTW, anyone on here have a suggestion for getting from MKE to ORD without going into downtown Chicago? I think there is a shuttle of some sort but haven't looked very deeply into that. We'll be at my Peace Corps Reunion at a hotel near the lake and Art Museum.
Frank in sunny and cool SBA
PullmanCo Member # 1138
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I've used Metra Rail (ex C&NW) on the North Line as far as Ravinia. It's perfectly adequate. It runs to Kenosha. So, airport transfer to Metra Kenosha, and down you go.
Having just driven in and around downtown Chicago (and as far out as O'Hare), do you REALLY want a cab or a limo? Uber would be your best choice.
FWIW, a week ago today, as I was passing O'hare enroute Des Plaines Hobby, a C-17 was on final to O'Hare. Care to bet what was in it? (My guess was his limo and whatever mobile support services the USSS uses).
sojourner Member # 3134
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Passenger Rail Fan: The Palmetto is just a regular NE corridor-type Amtrak train, although I believe the style with a little more leg room. It does not have a dining car. Snack bar (cafe car) is likely to be busy and sell out of items, so if you do use it, go early. Sitting in it often makes for good views, btw. . . My recommendation is to eat before your trip or bring your own food and just buy beverages on board. Are you boarding in DC? We picked up sandwiches we liked there (we actually had time to do it while the train changed engines, but that's not always the case), though I forget the name of the place . . . much better than the soggier offerings on the train, and the same price. If you pack food from home, you can buy one of those lightweight inexpensive thermal bags to keep it in. If you're just bringing for your first meal, you won't even need it.
The Meteor does have a dining car, although meals are pricey, esp dinner, if you don't have a sleeper. Still, I think the experience of dining in the dining car is not to be missed, especially if you've never done it. I recommend having breakfast at least--generally the best buy.
BTW, the food in Charleston is simply great.
Ocala Mike: I think you should go into the dining car, you will meet Amtrak supporters, rail fans, and many other interesting people, even if you don't talk much they will be fun to listen to. Or, if you get stuck with folks you don't like, you can take a "doggie bag." Also, it's usually more comfortable to eat in the dining car (though it can be colder; wear a little sweater), and if you get a window seat, views from the dining car are nice. And yes, your sleeping car attendant will bring you meals, though attendants can be busy and meals may not come just when you want. If all goes smoothly, I think an extra $5-10 on the room tip you give him would be enough, depending on how many meals s/he brings. Note that if you eat in the dining car, your tip goes to the dining car attendant: When traveling alone on the free meals with sleeper plan, I usually leave $2-3 tip for dinner, $1-2 for lunch, $1-2 for breakfast.
MargaretSPfan Member # 3632
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Mr. Norman --- Thank you for the info about why catering the food on Amtrak would never work. I had never thougt about those practical problems.
The very best way to deal with on-board meals is to prepare all of them on board, a was done in The Good Old Days -- and that food was very high-quality, the equal of anything in a fine restaurant back then. And almost all of it was prepared on board. Was that expensive? Darn right it was, but no railroad back then would have done anything less.
Of course it is expensive to operate passenger trains -- comes with the territory. Railroading of any kind is very labor-intensive, and there is no good and decent and safe way around that.
I need to state the following to put this whole discussion about food service on Amtrak into its proper context.
We would not be having this discussion about food service on Amtrak if the priorities of those who control our nation's purse-strings were fair and rational. They are not, and have not been for a very long time. It is funny how, when a business leader or a politician really wants to do something, money is no object -- the cost is downplayed, or reasons (real or imagined) are stated, while when business and political leaders do not want to do something, they complain loudly about the "high" costs. I have seen this happen for decades. And there is nothing new at all about this. Remember to "follow the money," and ask, "Cui bono?" -- "Who benefits?" for anything.
A huge problem Amtrak has always faced, and always will face, is the greed and the lack of caring (about the needs of ordinary people) by most business and political leaders. Every dollar spent on us is a dollar they do not have, and they do their best to get away with spending as little as possible on our needs -- and they almost always get away with that.
The "rest of the story" is why is is ridiculous for anyone to complain about the pitifully tiny amounts of money Amtrak gets and spends. This is because Amtrak's entire annual appropriation is only 4/100ths of one percent of the annual federal budget! Really! Do the math yourselves, and you will get the same result (if you use FY 2014 figures, which I did, as they are the most recent I could find.
Amtrak's FY 2014 appropriation was $1.45 billion, while the federak budget for FY 2014 was $3,605 billion. So -- Amtrak's annual operating appropriation is not even a rounding error when compared to the size of the federal budget, and we would not even be having this discussion if wise and rational people were in charge of our nation's priorities and spending, but that is, sadly, not the case.
Of course, every LD and medium-distance passenger train should have full-service dining cars -- and two dining cars, if that is necessary to handle the usual number of passengers. While I am at it, most LD trains should also have at least two Sightseer Lounges. From what I have been reading, that is necessary because of the large numbers of passengers. Is that expensive? Darn right all this is necessary if we are ever to have a really first-class passenger train service in this country.
In the mean time, I just hope poor abused Amtrak manages to survive this new administration. It is impossible to improve what has been destroyed. Gotta put it back first.
No passenger train anywhere in the world ever makes a real profit after capital costs are added in. You cannot ride trains if stations and the trains themselves do not exist --and those are capital costs.
FWIW, here are a number of things we passengers need that freight cargo does not need:
1. Air 2. Water 3. Food 4. Seats 5. Bathrooms 6. Excellent HVAC systems 7. Windows 8. On-board staff 9. Stations 10. Smooth ride 11. Predictable schedules
All these things cost money, lots of it, but we are worth it.
I wonder: does anyone have a rough figure for how much all the railroads in this country spent each year on their passenger trains in, say, 1950, including advertising and track maintenance and repair and installation? I ask because I want to see that and then adjust that figure for inflation, to get some bare-bones idea of how that compares to what Amtrak gets every year for operations plus some sort of annual allocation of what Amtrak's annual capital costs are. A HUGE TIA to anyone who can give me those figures!
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Within this NARP Hotline, a "delivery schedule" of the sixty remaining V-II's is addressed.
I'm inclined to say "consider the source".
While NARP's "fake news" appears blown, two more V2D's are reportedly set for delivery. If delivery is occurring by the numbers, that means six (4 A's, 2 B's) plus prototype "I" are on the property. While unlikely, but at least "on paper", Amtrak could retire all "H-D's" from.the two trains, Crescent and Meteor, they are presently assigned - and this would require one such car to make a same-day turn at SSY.
Get another two (Charleston and Columbia?), and there would be adequate protection.
PullmanCo Member # 1138
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Update on Chicago transportation:
- Take Metra to North Western station (Oglivie Transportation Center.
- Walk or cab 5 blocks east and two blocks north to Clark and Lake CTA station.
- Take the CTA Blue Line to O'Hare.
I just used the Blue line last week on an overnight layover coming home from a business trip. My United Express flight broke its rubber band, and we had a five hour delay in Syracuse, NY. That was enough to blow away my 2d leg, so I had the choice of wait a day in Syracuse, or visit family in Chicago. No brainer.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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I must concede being mistaken as to the "car count". I"ve now learned that even though one each of the human carrying cars was sent to Amtrak during March 2016, they were never accepted and got returned to CAF with a laundry list of "honeydews". Apparently, each were the guinea pigs for the modifications Amtrak wants, so they are being tinkered with up there and will be the final cars to be delivered during ???
So there will be six cars, 3 A's, 2 B's, and 1 I, on the property - enough with spares for the Meteor.
Now what remains, can they keep enough relics on the road for the four-set Crescent until more "reinforcements" arrive?
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