The presentations are somewhat lengthy. If you don't have time to watch all 3 videos, here is their list:
12. The Silver Palm
11. The Gulf Breeze
10. The Floridian and Kentucky Cardinal
9. The Night Owl and Twilight Shoreliner.
8. The Cape Codder.
7. North Coast Hiawatha
6. The Montrealer
5. The Desert Wind
4. San Diegan
3. Pioneer
2. Broadway Limited
1. Metroliner Service
***************************** Honorable Mentions: SF Zephyr, Abraham Lincoln, International Limited (Chicago to Toronto), Atlantic City Express, National Limited (NYC to KC), and the Fast Mail.
Richard
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Looks well produced to me, Richard.
Also, no need to search through the YouTube catalog, as the videos have a link embedded to the following one in the series.
yukon11 Member # 2997
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Yes, it does seem like the videos are well produced and I just now noticed you can click on the next video without needing to pick from the column to the right.
If it were up to me, I would make a few changes in the listing.
First of all, I would not have the Metroliner Service as #1. I don't think the demise of the Metroliner has had that great an impact, with the popularity and ridership of the Acela and NEC trains. I would remove the Metroliner from the list.
I would put the (loss of the) Pioneer as #1. Not only did it provide a more direct route between Denver/Salt Lake City and the northwest, but if it were to return it could allow for more rational arrival times into Salt Lake City. Also, to benefit, it would return a passenger train to southern Idaho and Wyoming.
For #2, I would choose the North Coast Hiawatha. The video notes the remark by former senator Mike Mansfield, who noted that the loss of the NC Hiawatha meant that the major population centers, in Montana, no longer had access to a passenger train.
Maybe not practical, but I have always wondered if Amtrak # 28, Portland to Spokane could, instead of merging with the Builder, continue on along the NC Hiawatha (NP) route to Fargo. Also the reverse with #27 from Fargo to Portland. I think the ridership would be ok, although probably the train consist and amenities would have to change, especially the need for a dining car with, hopefully, good food.
Finally, I would upgrade the International Limited to the list of #12. I would be nice to have a passenger train running from Chicago to Toronto.
Richard
RRRICH Member # 1418
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I'd also add the Texas Chief (Chicago-Houston) to the list
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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Rich, lest we forget that the Texas Chief/Lone Star was essentially covered by the Eagle (addendum: Ambus to Houston from Longview). On that same note, the Broadway Limited has been covered by the Lake Shore.
Why Metroliner got billing when a far superior product with the Acela, and by far the most commercially successful one Amtrak has ever had, escapes me.
George Harris Member # 2077
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quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Why Metroliner got billing when a far superior product with the Acela, and by far the most commercially successful one Amtrak has ever had, escapes me.
Guess I have a little different opinion about these trains. To me the Acela was attempting to pound a square peg into a round hole. It was and is basically a European design for European conditions minimally modified for American conditions either alignment or track design and practices by people that really did not have a good understanding of either. It works but is really still more because it has been forced to by maintenance people that do understand what they are dealing with.
The Metroliner may have been pulled off the tree not completely ripe, and may have been heavier than it should have been, but at least it was stout and fast. There was also a lot of pride by all involved in the early days. The engineers wore suits and ties. It also had a railfan seat.
My one ride on a Metroliner was between Baltimore and Washington in about 1973 or 4. At the time I was working on WMATA and we were looking for a place to stash a pile of CWR, and just a few weeks before had been walking along the track about half way between DC and Baltimore. The ties in the line were near perfect, but those in a crossover near the spot where were looking which had multiple defects, many hollowed out. We were in the train where we could see over then engineer's shoulder including out the windshield and the dashboard, including the digital speedometer. He was treating the speed limits like suggestions. We went over that crossover at something like 114 mph. There was a rather hefty bounce, but everything stayed on the track. Left Baltimore about 1 minute late and arrived in DC about 1 minute early. Awesome trip. No sense of straining in the train operation. Just a sense that the engineer was getting out of it all he considered safe.
RRRICH Member # 1418
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No, Gil -- the Texas Chief/Lone Star was NOT "covered" by the Texas Eagle. Texas Chief/Lone Star had direct service from Chicago to Houston; Eagle doesn't even go through Houston. Although the Texas Chief/Lone Star was replaced in part by the Heartland Flyer, several towns in N Oklahoma are currently NOT served by the Flyer. The Texas Chief also had direct service from Chicago to Oklahoma -- Eagle has no such service.
The old Inter-American was "covered" in most part by the Texas Eagle.
I'd put the North Coast Hiawatha as no. 1 on the top discontinued train list. My first "adult" train trip was on the Hi from Chicago to Livingston, when I worked at Yellowstone the summer between my junior and senior year of college (1969).
yukon11 Member # 2997
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I envy your trip on NC Hiawatha, Rich. I would have liked to have taken it to Gardiner and the north entrance to Yellowstone:
Of all the fallen flags, I think the NC Hiawatha might have the best chance for a comeback provided that the Montana Rail Link would find it acceptable.
In 2009, a study estimated a cost of just over 1 billion for the train's resurrection. The estimated fare box recovery was 58%. I also think ridership would be good, with people using the train for recreational activities and for visiting Yellowstone Park.
Richard
chrisg Member # 2488
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They used my pictures without crediting me.
Chris
RRRICH Member # 1418
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Yukon -- thanks for the Gardiner link -- quite full of interesting stuff about the region. The NP at one time had service to Gardiner, but that was WAY before my time. I took the Hia (which was still called the North Coast Limited in 1969)to Livingston, at which point the new employees of Yellowstone took a Yellowstone Park Co. bus to Mammoth Hot Springs in Yellowstone via Gardiner. After getting "checked in" and fed at Mammoth, we took other YP busses to the various locations at which we were to work for the summer. I worked at Canyon Village that year.
Chris -- which one was your uncredited picture?
chrisg Member # 2488
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The pictures on the Night Owl in Boston and a Kentucky Cardinal in Jeffersonville, IN.
Chris
Geoff Mayo Member # 153
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If I wanted one train to return it would have to be the Desert Wind. A 10:55am departure from LA on Mo/We/Fr, arrival into Las Vegas 5:45pm. Return from Vegas at 8:05 on We/Fr/Su, arrival into LA 3:20pm. Of course, 4-6 hours later on the return trip would suit those all-nighters better.
palmland Member # 4344
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Maybe with the sharp decline in coal traffic, there is capacity now on both the CSX and NS lines between Cincinnati and Atlanta to revive a modern day Floridian (although that would be the route of the Royal Palm and Southland). A connection off the Cardinal in Cinci than perhaps NS to Savannah or Jax to connect to the Star or Meteor.
I know that's wishful thinking, but perhaps if Bernie is elected everyone will get everything.
yukon11 Member # 2997
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Rich: I realize that the North Coast Limited or Olympian Hiawatha did not go to Gardiner. On the North Coast Limited, I would have taken the bus to the park, out of Livingston. I believe the old Olympian Hiawatha had a bus ready in Three Forks that would take you into the park. In the real old days, UP had a bus into the west entrance of the park, the Chicago, Burlington & Pacific had a connection to the east end, and the Chicago and Northwestern had a bus to the south entrance.
Mr. Palmland: I think I would list the Floridian higher than they did. It would be nice to have a train to Louisville and Nashville. I think that great old Union Station, in Nashville, is now a hotel (?).
Geoff: Isn't there suppose to be groundbreaking, for the Xpress West (LA to Las Vegas) train, this coming fall? If it does come about, I wish they would extend it to Salt Lake City.
Richard
Geoff Mayo Member # 153
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quote:Originally posted by yukon11: Geoff: Isn't there suppose to be groundbreaking, for the Xpress West (LA to Las Vegas) train, this coming fall? If it does come about, I wish they would extend it to Salt Lake City.
I thought there already was one a few years ago but I can't find evidence of it on the local news website. Could've sworn there was a small ceremony, because only recently I learned roughly where it would have been - less than 10 miles from where I live.
The XpressWest website hasn't tweeted for nearly 3 years and the most recent milestone on its website was 9 months ago... ominously quiet?
By the way, if you find your source about the groundbreaking, can you let me know (on this forum)? I'd like to try to be there if I can. Thanks.
George Harris Member # 2077
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quote:Originally posted by yukon11: Mr. Palmland: I think I would list the Floridian higher than they did. It would be nice to have a train to Louisville and Nashville. I think that great old Union Station, in Nashville, is now a hotel (?).
And most of the platform area is now a parking lot. At least for the most part it is not covered with buildings.
While talking about this it would be interesting to know what out of use stations are still out there and the condition of their platform and approach track areas.
A major problem with attempting to put on a restored Floridian or any of the South Wind / City of Miami route trains is that the track is either much reduced in allowed speeds or simply not there at all.
RRRICH Member # 1418
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Yukon -- Didn't the Union Pacific once have a train to West Yellowstone? (maybe before the bus that you referenced). There is still an abandoned station in West Yellowstone. My wife and I saw it when we were in Yellowstone in 2006. Where did that old UP train to West Yellowstone originate? (Boise> Portland?)
yukon11 Member # 2997
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I gather from the following, Rich, that UP actually did go all the way into the Park, from the west. The article says the run wasn't open during the winter.
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I have a 1927 Southern Pacific timetable that shows a UP connection from Salt Lake City to West Yellowstone. The trip took almost 12 hours and was overnight in both directions.
I'd love to see the Pioneer restored but the train I would most like to see come back would be The Expo 74 which provided daytime service between Seattle and Spokane during the Spokane World's Fair in 1974. The Expo 74 certainly doesn't have a hallowed history like many of the other trains on the list, but it would be very useful today. I think many of you would enjoy being able to see all the scenery across WA during daylight hours and arrive/depart Spokane during waking hours.
Gilbert B Norman Member # 1541
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I'll admit, I'm too lazy right now to go upstairs to research it (ever since I got this Samsung Smart Phone, it is easier just to surf from my Ekornnes Stressless chair), but I believe there were Pullman sleeper lines Chi-Jellystone handled on the Portland Rose in addition to the Salt Lake lines noted by Mr. Vincent on the Butte Special.
Further thought regarding "train to park" is it's amazing that the 2nd (GCN) and 4th (YOS) most visited still have "fairly convenient" rail access and the 10th (GLC) has direct.
palmland Member # 4344
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After doing a bit of research, it seems that West Yellowstone, at least post war, never had that much rail service. In the 50's there was the overnight train (later named the Park Special) that carried a couple sleepers from Salt Lake City to both West Yellowstone and Victor (closer to the Teton NP).
By the 60's the Yellowstone cars were gone, but a sleeper and lounge continued to Victor through summer of '65. In the 50's and earlier there was also one sleeper from Chicago to West Yellowstone forwarded on various trains (SF Overland, City of Los Angles, and Portland Rose-as GBN notes) to Salt Lake and then connection to Yellowstone. But at no time, at least from the 30's on, does there appear to have been the robust service like ATSF had to Grand Canyon.
I think my preference would have been the North Coast Ltd which carried a Gardiner sleeper into the 50's, and later a relatively short bus ride from Livingston to Gardiner.
We'll be in Yosemite next week and hope to see what the rail facilities look like. Apparently 4 daily thruway buses from Merced.
George- at least on the South Wind route, the major stations are still standing with intact platforms at Nashville (now a Wyndham hotel), Louisville (city transit offices with the KY Cardinal track still in place), Bowling Green (now fully restored as a city event center and museum), Birmingham (a new station about completed), and Montgomery (train shed gone - platform would have to be on the mainline, but station restored).
Jerome Nicholson Member # 3116
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I'd put the NC Hiawatha at #1 followed by the Pioneer. NCH covered a more scenic part of Montana andhad access to Yellowstone. Maybe they COULD restore it obe day as the Portland train.
We should stay tuned: it's looking like the California Zephyr may join this list in a few years.
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