I have mixed feelings. It would be nice to board an Amtrak train or plane and have a phone app scanned to prove you've had the Covid vaccine. A good feeling to know everyone aboard the train or plane has had the vaccination.
But I think there are problems. The passport doesn't account for the hundreds of thousands who have acquired herd immunity who haven't had the vaccination. Also, the Covid vaccine isn't 100% effective, so some vaccinated folks may still spread the virus. Could there not be ways to get a fraudulent phone app? Will there be a security guard at every public gathering, concert, sports event, restaurant, grocery store, etc, to scan your smart phone? What about privacy concerns? Could details of your medical history be included in the app?
Richard
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Well, I think it is a better idea than the CDC VAX card I was given after my first. For the second, they added a sticker. However, it was up to me to add my name and address to it. There was nothing verifying that the card belonged to me.
In short, I could have peddled it; say on E-Bay, to an Anti-VAXer, who needed to establish to a third party they had been VAXED.
By contrast, my WHO VAX card I needed to go overseas during '60 was carefully authenticated.
While, as Richard noted when starting this topic, "there's talk" of having a digital record, or Passport, presumably accessible by use of a QR Code for those with phones, this is still "pie in the sky" talk at this time - and hard as it is to believe, there are some out there who do not have phones.
Until that "Utopian" day arrives, I think that at each VAX facility, after the recipient has received VAX-2 (or the "one and done", should the hold on such be rescinded), the recipient will be required to record their name and address on the CDC documentation and present it along with ID to a person at the site for review. Once authenticated, with a seal, only then will a recipient be allowed to leave the facility. This could be done during the fifteen minute "purgatory" after receiving the VAX.
All told, such would, simply bring the VAX program to the same level of authenticity as exists with the WHO Yellow Cards, if those are still required for travel to some parts of the World.
Addendum: apparently the market for fake VAX cards is "brisk":
I see New York City is now requiring "proof of vaccination" cards before entering restaurants, some businesses, and concerts. Will New York State soon follow suit?
Vaccination proof cards are needed for cruise ships and some overseas flights. Will vax proof cards eventually be needed for domestic flights? If you're on the Empire Service or Lake Shore Limited, headed for NYC, will there be agents, on board, checking your vax card? Or upon arrival at the station?
In contrast, if a business or contractor, in Texas, demands vax proof cards for its customers, the business or contractor could lose their license or operating permit.
Here in Calif. the mask requirement went away back in June. Now it's back. I went into my local Starbucks and realized that the mask requirement has returned. I wasn't wearing a mask, but I did mention, to the clerk, that I have a proof of vaccination card in my wallet. Nope, it didn't matter, I still needed a mask. Pure insanity, in one man's opinion.
Richard
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
I'm at ORD Club United having a "pre-flight" Chardonnay. For the flight to EDDM/MUC, United wanted me to upload a photo of my VAX card. TSA wasn't concerned.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
From Starbucks adjacent to Salzburg Hbf---
German Passport Control wanted to see my VAX card at MUC yesterday.
At Ostbahnhof Munich, DB has "mask police" (likely college interns) who ran me off the platform because my mask wasn't FFP 2. So I had to buy one (€,99 - cents), but still got my train.
Posted by Ocala Mike (Member # 4657) on :
E-mail from my daughter-in-law in Utah. Guess I won't be seeing my grandson for a while.
"Hello family,
I'm so sorry and disappointed to say this, but I think we'll have to postpone our October visit. The Delta variant is hazardous even to the vaccinated (you may not get symptoms but can still get it and suffer long haul Covid issues, per Fauci yesterday). The epidemiology models show we'll hit a peak infection rate in mid-October...not a great time to be in an airport/plane (or in Florida in general thanks to your governor). I've canceled two other trips scheduled for this fall because of it, as well. We're hopeful that we could come during Leo's spring break (March 25-April 1). Let me know if those dates work for you.
Love you and miss you, and can't wait for this all to be over. Please wear masks and be careful."
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
Irrelevant to the subject, but: Note in Mr. Norman's (€,99 - cents), use of a comma where we would use a period as a decimal. That is typical of a lot of the Europeans. Some use decimals in large numbers where we would use commas, but the more recent seems to be just throw in a space between numbers instead. This stuff can warp your brain the first time you have to deal with it. My engineer brain says if you have a less than one number you want to express as a decimal, put a zero in front of the decimal so the fact that there is one won't get lost. Maybe the Germans don't. But if I were to write 99 cents as a portion of a dollar, I would write $0.99. But still for large numbers if I am writing 12,234,567.89 to see it either as 12.234.567,89 or 12 234 567,89 is somewhat brain warping.
Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
As a ham radio operator, I would frequently get confused when I received a ham radio contact verification card from a ham in a European country. For example, they would say the contact was on 5/3/2021. This means March 5th, 2021. To me, it means May 3rd, 2021.
Richard
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
From Pitter Hotel; Salzburg
I've been asked to show my VAX card at:
German Passport Control; Munich This hotel to register. Bar "with a view" at another hotel. To enter a concert today (Mahler's Third); also FFP 2 mask To have Lunch today.
Monday, I get my COVID test administered by the Rotes Kreu (Austrian Red Cross); it's free.
Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
I read where some medical experts, at Johns Hopkins, believe we will be masking up for several years to come. Even with the VAX and regular VAX boosters. I hope not.
Enjoy the Mahler, Mr. Norman.
Richard
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
quote:Originally posted by yukon11: As a ham radio operator, I would frequently get confused when I received a ham radio contact verification card from a ham in a European country. For example, they would say the contact was on 5/3/2021. This means March 5th, 2021. To me, it means May 3rd, 2021.
Richard
Or they would write it as 5 Mar 21.
And then in a lot places in Asia they write dates in the order of year-month-day. This I have found to be a good way to keep updates of files. End the file name with the date in year month day order and when you update, change the date and lo and behold, they will pop up your filename index in order.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Home;
First, the Monday COVID test (Negative) could have been "smoother"; it appears that when I showed up for the test at the facility (a State office building adjacent to my hotel), they could not locate the record of my appointment made the past Friday. But an English speaking technician "really cared about me". She thought I should get the more complete PCR test which the results would not be available until Tuesday vs. the Antigen which would be available in fifteen minutes. I said "I just want what United Airlines requires to allow me on the flight home". Now we can't get United's site to load - either my phone or her Wi Fi.
Finally the site loads; and the Antigen was good enough. She couldn't been gentler poking my nose (I've heard stories of some technicians "ramming" the swab in until it touched your brain). She printed out the results, I took a photo of it and uploaded it to United.
I owe "everything" to that "thirtysomething" girl who kept me from "losing it". We parted ways with a hug, no less.
And this was at a Government agency, Österreichisches Rotes Kreu (Austrian Red Cross).
Well, now for the next "crisis" getting home. I show up at the Hauptbahnhof about 745A on Wednesday for the 8A train to Ostbahnhof (Airport stop). Well now it's time to learn a new German word "Lokführerstreik", or "Train Driver Strike".
That's all I needed; incidentally not the first time I've been overseas and had to learn a similar word such as "Huelga" in Spanish, or also strike.
There goes my planned 1'35" for formalities at MUC. Well, there was a Bavarian Regional train leaving at 815A, but making many more stops. This wasn't going to get there until 1055A, or leaving me 60 minutes for formalities.
I thought for sure I had bought myself an overnight in Munich. All I could think of were people who camped out at the airport because their cards were MAXED to make the trip, but that is not me in this life.
Now German efficiency to the rescue; boarding pass issuing 5min, Security 5min, Passport Control 5min. Business Class can pay its way; and with Group 1 boarding, I was on the aircraft at 1130A, which "pushed" on time at 1155A.
Yes, all's well that ended well, but just too much "tense" for this, even if well traveled in this life, 80yo.
Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
It looks like Amtrak may soon require a Covid proof of vaccination card for all passengers:
I hope there will be an easy way to get a proof of VAX app for your cellphone. I don't like having to constantly dig the hard copy out of the wallet. No doubt there will be fraudulent VAX apps for the phone, as well as fraud hard copy cards to create the fraud apps.
Richard
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
"Papers, papers, show me your papers!" NO, and NO. We should not go there in this country.
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Richard, sure wish I could understand the compulsion of those my junior to put everything on to their phones.
My VAX card with one fold, fits nicely in my wallet. I did, however, take a photo of it that resides up in Mr. Google's Cloud. So many were saying to do so.
I think there's a way to go until a cop will accept your uploaded Driver's License and insurance card with a download to, say, his phone.
Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
Or, maybe, "we've got to show you no stinking proof of vax cards".
Richard
Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
It looks like passengers boarding Canadian VIA trains will now have to have "proof of vax" cards in order to board:
What if a passenger has natural immunity from a previous Covid infection? Johns Hopkins says people who have recovered from Covid have a 27 times greater immunity from the disease than do people who get the vaccinations.
I think it's going to be difficult to enforce the rule. Probably a lot of delays at train stations, not to mention passengers with fake "proof of vax" cards.
Richard
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Richard, you should see the EU's VAX card. It is Yellow (as was my '60 vintage WHO), has the administer's signatures, and a seal.
Our CDC card is a joke.
When I got my shots, I was astounded how the administer just gave me the CDC form showing the two shots, but nothing identifying it belonged to me. I could have shared it with an anti-VAXER such as my Sister, or sold it.
I would have thought that after the shot was administered and I was given the card, that during my 15 min observation period, I would have been directed to record my name on it, then taken it to a examiner with ID, who after review, would have affixed a seal to such.
Posted by TBlack (Member # 181) on :
Our CDC card is a joke.
Gilbert, You may think so, but you've just told us that it works in Europe. Perhaps your criticisem is a little over the top? Tom
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
quote:Originally posted by TBlack: ...it works in Europe.
Mr. Black, maybe some jurisdictions do a better job of verification than mine did at the time I got VAX-2 (Mar 3), but to be given a card certifying that the bearer has been administered the VAX (and let's be honest, even if it isn't perfect, it's pretty darned good) without any verification that the holder is the one to whom the VAX was administered, shows a weakness in the process; hence a joke.
Now so far as verification to enter the EU, "it's all they got". So if the member states want those "Yankee Dollars", they have to live with it.
Now as to why the EU does not require a test for entry escapes me; probably same reason that they accept the flimsy CDC card (I got tested before I left because I wanted to be tested; if positive, I would have scrubbed the trip - and just "that's life" accepted the €550 forfeit of concert tickets). However to return to the USA, you must be tested "over there" - and no earlier than 72hrs prior. This requirement "cast a shadow" over my entire trip, even if it turns out United Airlines (airlines do the "policing" for the CDC) would accept the 15min Antigen test. Needing "anything medical" overseas is scary enough - and something on my overseas jaunts I can do nicely without.
Fortunately, the testing center in Salzburg was "catty corner" to my hotel, and the English speaking technician was completely empathetic to my concerns. But to have this concern throughout my entire stay until one day before I left took much enjoyment away from the trip.
Now if I were to return to Salzburg again while the emergency is still ongoing, I would not have same concerns.
Posted by TBlack (Member # 181) on :
quote:maybe some jurisdictions do a better job of verification than mine did at the time I got VAX-2 (Mar 3), but to be given a card certifying that the bearer has been administered the VAX without any verification that the holder is the one to whom the VAX was administered, shows a weakness in the process;
Gilbert, can you imagine a scenario where someone gets the VAX and pretends to be someone else? Tom
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Mr. Black, within the EU as well as many a non-member state, such as the UK, over there, carrying ID is required. Asia? surely the same.
The US is one of the few industrialized sovereignties where such is not required, but I must wonder how anyone much beyond adolescence could live life without carrying such.
Maybe now that the VAX eligibility rules include 5yos, there could be issues, but for the adolescent and up world, I would not think presenting ID when being issued and having verified the VAX card would present issues.
Finally, so far as my experiences getting the shots administered, for VAX-1 and 2, ID was required to enter the facility (a HS auditorium), but the weakness I noted was on the way out. For VAX-3, that was at my local OSCO (Albertson's) pharmacy where my face is my ID.
Posted by TBlack (Member # 181) on :
Gilbert, It may not be an inconvenience to carry ID, but I still don't see why it is necessary to present an ID when getting the shot. Tom
Posted by Gilbert B Norman (Member # 1541) on :
Last night at the Chicago Symphony, they don't fool around. I guess it comes from the heritage of the Teutonic Conductors they have had over the years - Stock, Reiner. Solti.
To enter Orchestra Hall, VAX card and Photo ID; my companion (I often go on my own), she had a photo of hers on her phone. "Ma'am, we clearly state you must have your actual VAX card with you, but this time we'll let you in". Next was security, where they wanted to look in a tote bag I had (sweater, programs, my CSO hat). Finally, they scanned your tickets.
Other Performing Arts venues about town are same.
So at least Carol had something to get in (that would have been "sport"; forfeit $300 of tickets).
Posted by yukon11 (Member # 2997) on :
After Jan 1st, all children 5 yrs and older will need to have a proof of vax card to gain access to any San Francisco indoor business. So, if you take your 5 year old to a Baskin & Robbins for an ice cream cone, and if the child has no proof of vax, no ice cream and you could be in for a very heavy fine. Even if the child wears a mask.
It's all about control.
Richard
Posted by George Harris (Member # 2077) on :
quote:Originally posted by yukon11: It's all about control.
Richard
Exactly!!!!!
Posted by irishchieftain (Member # 1473) on :
San Francisco has been committing suicide for quite a few decades running
