RAILforum: Ticket Machines on RVL?

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Posted by Kent Loudon (Member # 902) on :

I visited High Bridge recently and noticed that signs have been posted stating that "there is a ticket vending machine on the platform". Same at Annandale. No signs of any such machines. Are there plans to install machines on the RVL ?

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- Kent Loudon, Somerville NJ

Posted by transit383 (Member # 1488) on :

When the fare increase went into effect, NJT put up signs at many stations regarding ticket purchases. At New Brunswick on the NEC, signs were put up stating that a five dollar surcharge will be charged if the ticket is purchased on the train. (These are made of thick plastic with a large font, rather nice signs especially for an agency that is in financial trouble.)

Currently, Westfield is the only station on the RVL with Ticket Vending Machines. I don't see why NJT would put TVMs at High Bridge or Annandale, seeing that most trains terminate at Raritan on weekdays, and all trains terminate at Raritan on weekends (unless NJT is thinking of expanding service...)

Posted by irishchieftain (Member # 1473) on :

I'm not a man who is very fond of TVMs; the ones that NJT have are slow (it takes over 60 seconds to get a ticket out of it, no matter what method of payment you use), sometimes they're broken (and how do you explain that to the conductor who's trying to get an extra $5 out of you?)...on top of that, most ticket agents are much faster than the TVM, nullifying whatever usefulness they have.

Besides, for revenue collection using TVMs to be really effective, you'd need the presence of POP-cop personnel on the platform for both assistance and ticket-checking, i.e. where the conductors are not able to fulfill that role themselves, such as during morning/evening rush. (Such could start on the NEC during weekdays; the conductors wouldn't have their hands full so much, trying to check tickets, leaving that to the POP officers on the platforms.) I'm no fan of POP either, especially when transit agencies that use it get lax and instead do random inspections; POP would be most effective when combined with a permanent inspection presence plus conductors.

Posted by Kent Loudon (Member # 902) on :

>> At New Brunswick on the NEC, signs were put up stating that a five dollar surcharge will be charged if the ticket is purchased on the train.
...(unless NJT is thinking of expanding service...)<<

The signs I mentioned said that too.

There was a report (rumor?) a while back that NJT was planning to extend double track east to Whitehouse and increase service, possibly including weekends. With their current finantial situation, I don't see them doing that!

To irishcheiftan: I've heard of POP-TARTS, but what's a POP-Cop ?

[This message has been edited by Kent Loudon (edited 04-07-2002).]

Posted by irishchieftain (Member # 1473) on :

quote:
To irishcheiftan: I've heard of POP-TARTS, but what's a POP-Cop?

"POP-Cop" is a generic term for a fare inspector on a POP (proof-of-payment) system, or so I've heard it to be from other rail fans. Some of them have actual police powers on certain systems.

I've had some conversations with Ra'akone (who used to post in the Railroad.net Amtrak forum); he's got a lot of experience with commuter-rail POP up in Montréal, Canada, which has used the system for years...there's the occasional inspector aboard a train, but the inspectors usually work on the station platforms, inspecting passengers' tickets as they get off the train, especially during rush-hours when it would be more difficult for on-board conductors or inspectors to check tickets.

I'm wary of POP, personally, especially due to its heavy reliance on ticket-vending machines (which can be unreliable, in which case, how does one get a ticket?) and random inspections (a permanent presence of inspectors would work better). No system is perfect, but POP just seems to have too many holes, especially the way it's administered on the HBLRT and (even worse) the NCS...

Posted by Ken V (Member # 1466) on :

quote:
Originally posted by irishchieftain:
I'm no fan of POP either, especially when transit agencies that use it get lax and instead do random inspections; POP would be most effective when combined with a permanent inspection presence plus conductors.

Alan,

The proof-of-payment concept has been very effective in several jurisdictions (when the penalty for not having a valid ticket is high enough, random checks are sufficient).

I don't have any statistics on the subject, but where I live there are two transit systems which use POP on some routes and I have never seen anyone caught without a ticket on one of the random checks.

IT WORKS!

Posted by irishchieftain (Member # 1473) on :

Well, Ken...parts of NJ can be a rough camp, and I wouldn't like to see a POP inspector end up in the hospital because some ganster-type felt like he was entitled to a free ride...especially on the NCS, which, apart from the new Orange Branch stations and Orange Street station, could have used a barrier system. The only time I've seen inspectors on the Newark Subway was during rush-hour, on the platforms, usually...and off-peak, they're nowhere in sight.