RAILforum: Binghamton service

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Posted by gct29 (Member # 1551) on :

From Trains.com:

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New York state says no go on Binghamton passenger service

It doesn’t make sense to use Norfolk Southern’s Southern Tier line for passenger service between Binghamton, N.Y., and the metro New York area, a state study concluded last week.

The study found that using the former Erie main line, perhaps by connecting with existing Metro-North commuter service at Port Jervis, would take five or six hours – nearly double the drive time between Binghamton and the Big Apple.

Still on the table: a study of passenger rail linking Binghamton and metro New York via Scranton, the Binghamton Press & Sun Bulletin reported. That service would hinge on the rebuilding of the Delaware Cutoff in New Jersey.

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Remarks?

Posted by irishchieftain (Member # 1473) on :

The study found that using the former Erie main line, perhaps by connecting with existing Metro-North commuter service at Port Jervis, would take five or six hours

Yeah, that's with current track conditions. A track upgrade would shave hours off that estimate. What's the speed limit west of Port Jervis, 35 mph?!? That's abysmal compared to the 79 mph allowed on the straighter sections of the Graham Line and old main line. Plus, with NY State apparently not budging on repealing the taxes on the tracks, neither CSX nor NS will be willing to pay for track or signal improvements (why do that and get gouged for more tax dollars by the state??? If I ran CSX, I wouldn't do it either).

79 mph, the limit on good-condition CTC-controlled track, isn't too bad...but add cab signals, and the speed limit rises to 90 mph; add two forms of PTS, like on the Northeast Corridor, and the sky's the limit (or at least 150 mph, in theory, but Amtrak's still working on that; so far, their best in NJ is 135 mph).

Besides...going via the Southern Tier Line forces all trains to end the trip in Hoboken. That could be detrimental for anyone looking for potential passengers who would want to end their trip in Manhattan.

Hmm, and I always thought it was called the Lackawanna Cutoff, but I guess you learn something new every day. Even more hinges on the current speed limits from Slateford Junction through Scranton and along the Tunkhannock Viaduct, etc. etc. back into NY State. More CWR shouldn't be a problem in PA, depending on tax laws, but cross the border into NY state and you're back to square one. And what about that signalling problem...?!?

Of course, the best thing that this routing has going for it is the current "Midtown Direct" junction in Kearny, so trains could go to NY Penn Station. That would be a big seller, assuming the trains are fast enough.

[This message has been edited by irishchieftain (edited 05-07-2002).]

Posted by gct29 (Member # 1551) on :

Yeah, the Delaware Cutoff - part of the old Erie, Lackawanna & Western Rail Line, which will connect with the tracks of the New Jersey Transportation Authority.

Journalists . . . Sometimes even our own can't get it right.

Interesting to hear that the speed limit west of Port Jervis is so low. I had assumed that the problem was the circuitousness of the line, but then again, it's a pretty straight shot between Port Jervis and Binghamton.

Considering the fact that many preliminary researchers are no more adept at railroad assessment than journalists, I wonder if they even looked into state-sponsored upgrading and/or tax-abatement.

Logistics aside, NY-Scranton-Binghamton looks a lot more promising. It hits more population centers, and it can piggyback on an already existing plan. It also demands far less funding from Albany, while still linking a New York city with, uh, New York City.

Admittedly, Pennsylvania is a funding-wild card; but once they get a taste of passenger service in that region, they may be receptive to expansion that runs mostly through their state. From what I understand, Scranton-Binghamton is a bulging corridor.

Of course, there's the problem of Binghamton itself. Last time I visited, it was a typical de-populated small city. It'd be nice to take a train there . . . but then what?

Something to ponder: Whether to Scranton or Binghamton, we're looking at medium-distance service here. What kind of equipment will they use? Might we see retrofitted comets, or is 3&2 seating good enough for 130+ miles?

Posted by vthokie (Member # 1456) on :

I think I've actually ridden on this line, sort of. Well, not exactly, but I rode a train on the "Stourbridge Line" from Honesdale to Lackawaxen, PA. That's the Southern Tier route at Lackawaxen, correct?

Posted by irishchieftain (Member # 1473) on :

Of course, there's the problem of Binghamton itself. Last time I visited, it was a typical de-populated small city. It'd be nice to take a train there . . . but then what?

Well...one option is on to Buffalo, à la Phœbe Snow (imagine Amtrak resurrecting that train, but terminating in Penn Station instead of Hoboken Terminal?!?) Just a thought...

Posted by Derek Fenton (Member # 1483) on :

Why make Binghamton a priority? I'd be happy to see more frequent service to Nanuet and Harriman.

quote:
Originally posted by irishchieftain:
Well...one option is on to Buffalo, à la Phœbe Snow (imagine Amtrak resurrecting that train, but terminating in Penn Station instead of Hoboken Terminal?!?) Just a thought...

Posted by CANDORMAN (Member # 2069) on :

Binghamton University needs the rail service since so many of its growing body of students live in the metro NY area. However, there's state senator by the name of Tom Libous who has a railroad friend who contributes lots of money and they want to have passenger service only on his lines. Stupid politicians who would rather serve their poltical needs and not the population. So they will spend tons of money to push an idea that has no chance of winning. Rail service to NYC would be a boon to a depopulating town with a high ranking public university. Talk to a state senator who only wants to payback his big contributors and he'll say rail service from Binghamton to Syracuse is a better idea. What an idiot.