posted
I was last in Europe in the Early 90s but it seems from what I've read, that since the formation of the EU, many of your excellent rail systems, Britain, Germany, Holland, etc., have started to cut back on their route structures-providing less service-or to physically fall apart, as in the case of Britain and the former Eastern European nations. I have always looked up to Europe as practicing capitalism with a human face, a model of what we could be if we weren't so militaristic and worshipping of the dollar, from vacations and worker's rights, to health care to mass transportation, Europe has always been the progressive leader. Is this changing?
One of the joys, for me anyway, of visiting Europe, is that I don't HAVE to have a car to get where I want or need to go. A car there is more of an inconvenience than anything else.
As the US thinks of privatizing rather than adequately funding Amtrak, I see nothing but diminished and poorer quality service emerging from the rubble. Is it inevitable that privatization will result in this?
Torkel Member # 1599
posted
The reson for most of the problems in the UK appears to be lack of investment in the infrastructure. They've got plenty of lines first laid in the middle of the 19th century, this is why Railtrack collapsed as I see it.
Probably the same problem in eastern Europe, dunno for sure.
There are bright points though, such as TGV, ICE (and their future merging into one standard)
MPALMER Member # 125
posted
1. I agree with your comment about not needing a car---most of the time anyway. Just the same, if you visit someone who is more than walking distance from a station you will need some form of transport.
2. We went to Switzerland last year, and one real helpful aspect was getting inter-line information at a station, including transfer times etc. We traveled a series of routes that included both Swiss Federal and several private carriers, and were able to get a printed itinerary for all connections. (That would be like getting a routing in the US showing NJ Transit-Amtrak-MARC on the same printout---can that even be done?!)
dilly Member # 1427
posted
I lived in England during the 70s when British Rail was still in charge.
Much of the rail system back then was still quaintly stuck in the Victorian Age. The suburban and short distance trains were a hodgepodge of different equipment, some of it dating back to well before World War II (think of the Beatles on the train in "A Hard Days Night").
But the InterCity trains were sleek, fast, modern, and as comfortable as anything on Amtrak. And I don't think I ever took a train, anywhere in England, that didn't leave and arrive exactly on time.
Since privatization, it's been a nightmare. Trains arrive early, arrive late, and often don't arrive at all. It's not uncommon to get dumped off at an unfamiliar station in mid-route. Fares have skyrocketed. There've been some horrendously fatal train wreckes. And planning a trip requires a team of travel specialists -- especially if you unfortunately have to connect with another train.
During more recent travels, I've noticed this sort of sloppiness beginning to creep in other countries as well. A Dutch train I was on not long ago was filthy, scrawled with graffiti, and arrived twenty minutes late on the wrong platform. There was no announcement, and the forty or so people waiting for the train nearly missed it because we were standing in the wrong place.
Still, most Western European trains I've taken remain impressive in terms of frequency and punctuality, if not comfort. How long it will last is anybody's guess.
platform5fan Member # 1546
posted
Thanks for replying! Looks like there was more of a downside to the EU other than just losing your pretty currency! Whatever you do, don't let them establish a beer standard!
I think, with all the paranoia over here, if an NJ Transit-Amtrak-MARC schedule DID exist, you would have to go through Rumsfeld and Ashcroft to get it!1
In 90, we did a Eurail Drive Pass, touring Amsterdam-Munich-Garmisch-Bremen-Berlin-Amsterdam on ICE/IC trains. Our last pre-kid trip so it was memorable on many levels. Berlin was interesting; it was pre-unification. The wall was down but there was still a fence, and Americans could only cross at checkpoint charlie. It was a great trip.
duck1979 Member # 1840
posted
To get an idea how bad things are, visit a station where a Railtrack owned line meets up with that of a Preserved Railway (such as Grosmont, on the North Yorkshire Moors Railway, where I work).
When you stand on Platform 1 (the ARRIVA mainline between Whitby & Middlesbrough), the track looks a right mess...... lengths of rail dumped beside the rest of the rail (from recent track relaying), them wedge things that are supposed to keep the track in gauge strewn alongside the track, out of place (I spotted at least 7 had come out the other week) + loads of weeds & litter across the track.
Walk a couple of Metres / Feet over to Platforms 2, 3 & 4 which are run by mostly volunteers on the NYMR and it puts the mainline to shame big time.
And Railtrack call themselves professionals........... *shakes head*
~ JD
jebradley Member # 606
posted
Re the first post, it's true that modern Europe has progressed in many ways, but older folks remember that Europe's 'wonderful civilization' got us into two world wars within thirty years, at cost of multi-thousands of American lives; we had to rescue them from dictators since they couldn't or wouldn't contain them themselves. Then we rescued Europe with Marshall Plan aid which made much of the postwar 'progress' possible. Certainly we have had our own problems, and have badly short-changed our rail systems, esp. passenger, but I hope, and think, we'll right our tipsy policies in near future. Jim Bradley Hawk Mtn. Chapter Natl. Ry. Historical Society.
lindsay Member # 1859
posted
Things could be a lot better in the uk but its not all doom and gloom on the railway. The network (tracks,bridges,ect) need a lot of time and money spent on them and in my view that should be down to the goverment. As for the trains lots of them have or are been replaced by new ones. Virgin Trains will have new trains on all their routs in the next 12-18 months, because of poor track and the time its taking to improve the network Virgin can not run the trains to their full speed. Thay are working for a better railway as are others and slowly geting there.
john1082 Member # 2068
posted
Given that 6 months or so have passed since the last post here, have the Virgin Trains arrived, and is there any improvement seen in British rail passenger operations?
Greg Member # 66
posted
I was just over in Britain for two weeks around New Year's for the 4th time in the past 2+ years. The Virgin Voyagers and Super Voyagers are now in service, but have actually resulted in a decline in service quality. This has been well covered by the British rail press. While the new trains are nice, they really would be more suitable for secondary mainline service or off-peak service. The plan was to operate shorter trains faster and more frequently with a corresponding boost in ridership. This hasn't worked as planned. Even with the increased service frequency, there has been little or no net increase in seat capacity. On-time performance has suffered as track capacity isn't sufficient to operate more trains reliably on faster schedules. Trains routinely operating above capacity have added to the delays. Boosting ridership without a corresponding increase in seat capacity has resulted in chronically overcrowded trains. The 4-car Voyagers simply do not have enough seating, luggage space, or toilets for mainline service. While the electonic displays of reservations for each seat and access to a few audio channels at each seat are nice features, they don't make up for more the more serious shortcomings.
The Voyagers are designed to tilt and reach a top speed of 140 mph. However, Railtrack (now Network Rail) is years behind in improvements to the west coast mainline. There is currently no plan or timetable as to when the necessary improvements might be made to increase top track speed from 125 mph to 140 mph. Such improvements were supposed to have already been completed by Railtrack and formed the basis for Virgin's specifications for train performance as well as the number of trainsets. This is a good example of why one might not want to separate track infrastructure and train operating companies. In operations to the south of London, new trainsets are sitting idle or soon will be because current infrastructure will not support the greater electrical demand of the newer, faster, heavier equipment. Again, there is no timetable or plan for such improvements. Passengers will be stuck riding older, outdated equipment while train operators are making interest payments on new equipment sitting idle.
Greg
platform5fan Member # 1546
posted
Well, with the coffers of the UK and the US about to be sucked dry by this coming conflict with Iraq, there will definitely be no money for social programs, infrastructure repair, or infrastructure expansion. It looks like we will have to put up with diminished quality and services (for more than just passenger rail) for a long time to come.
posted