I have been becoming more and more disinchanted with Model Rialroader Magazine. I was wondering if I was the only one. Lately I have been finding the more I read, the less happy I am with it. Its like the Staff of Model Rialroader has been abducted and replaced by their evil step twins. Its been a while since I have ready anything from that magazine that shows off any model building skill at all. Those articles by the way were written by John Pryke. I feel that Mr. Pryke would be well advised to start writing for Railroad Model Craftsman as his work would be better appreciated there, and that Model Rialroader should change its name to "Ready to Run for Beginners Railroader" as their evil practices of making hype about all the new ready to roll equipment and touting layout construction tecneques that allows any Tony, Terry, or Andy to have a layout in operation by the end of an afternoon, and all they did was open bags and boxes, with the only real skill in the buying the lumber and screwing it together needs to be ashamed of them selvs for calling them modelers. This is something that the beginners segment calls for in December and January Issiues, Not the entire years press run. I am ashamed to admit that can not bring my self to buy any of the new Athearn, Walthers, or MDC rolling stock as it is now all ready to run.
Sincerely Yours, James R. Mitich Disgruntled Model Railroad Reader.
Posted by Chuck Walsh (Member # 677) on :
You are not alone out there.
This is the first time in five years that I didn't renew this Aug 1-03.
In the interim, I will go back to the public library.
I do need those performance figs on new locos.
Posted by Mike Smith (Member # 447) on :
Nope, you're not alone. I did not renew this year, either. It doesn't seem worth the $40.
[This message has been edited by mikesmith (edited 08-02-2003).]
Posted by Challenger (Member # 1298) on :
Dear Railforum Members,
I am pleased to present a guest posting for this forum. A topic very similar to this is presently running on the Yahoo "MILW modelers" forum. THe guest poster wrote a resonse who brought up several good points and thought they could also be shared here. It is with great pleasure I introudce Mr. Denny Anspach.
James
James Mitich comments on the current MODEL RAILROADER-
I reluctantly have to agree that the MODEL RAILROADER is not the magazine that it once was. It is currently less about modeling than it is about promoting model railroading as a hobby. This is reportedly why Andy Sperandeo (perhaps one of the most knowledgeable and expert railroad modelers that I have yet come across) was demoted to Executive Editor, because Kalmbach felt that the long term health of the magazine depended upon them doing their utmost to promote new entry-level hobbyists entering the field. This change in direction required a different kind of editorial expertise.
I do read the MODEL RAILROADER, if only because it is still the prime venue for the advertising of old and new products, and announcements of new products. It is still by far the most influential publication in the model railroad industry. It is also almost the only source for those anticipating layout construction, or planning. There are occasional fine articles of prime interest, enough so far to keep me as a subscriber.
RAILROAD MODEL CRAFTSMAN continues to be ever stronger in its emphasis on actual modeling, and modeling from the prototype. The long authoritative series over the past two years on DCC by Don Fiehmann (sp?) is one of the best, and quite timely. I will be disappointed if the articles do not become published in one volume.
With continued reference to the super-important matter of DCC, the recent "all engines forward" push by MR into DCC 9actually long overdue) is being currently addressed by editors and writers that seem to have only "new secondhand knowledge" with no credible credentials- and true or not, that is too often how they sound.
In the same vein, in other subjects as well, I also have a too-often feeling that subject fundamentals being addressed in MR have been learned just in the several hours prior to setting pen to paper. That may be unfair, or even untrue, but it is a distinct perception that continues.
These days I can commonly spend hours reading RMC, while the MR too often gets placed on the "already-read" pile sometimes after only 15 minutes.
MAINLINE MODELER is also excellent, but it is limited in its coverage by its low circulation and self-imposed advertising restrictions. Particular strengths of MM are its high production values and its superb management of and preference for) the best of B&W photography.
MR is serving an important function- enticing and welcoming new members into the hobby. No one else is doing it. Apparently Kalmbach feels that the toll imposed by the current editorial management and direction upon the hobby's already-established base is a price they are willing to pay.
Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento, CA
Posted by emdman1959 (Member # 2687) on :
Hey guys I have been buying model railroader for almost 25 years, and I have to say that I think the magazine has become stale. it seems like you are reading the exact same magazine every month when you open the cover. only difference is a few new models and a different railroad. I do not even really care for classic Toy trains any more i feel that is a magazine dedicated to collecting lionel trains only.And personally I will not buy new lionel since they have moved to china and put alot of good hardworking Americans out of work only in the name of profit. I think Railroad model craftsman is a good magazine and given time it will surpass model Railroader in sales. I also like O Gage Railroading but it is a hard magazine to find in some hobby shops, almost like model railroader and Classic Toy trains will not let some of the other mags be put in the same racks. ( kind of like a monopoly ) Well thats my view on the subject and personally I will not buy any Athearn Genisis equipment because it is all made in china putting more Americans out of work and charging 5 times the price of a regular athearn and I do not see a super big difference in them, maybe a little more detail but most guys like to add there own detail. seems like they are trying to take all the fun out of model railroading.
Posted by MPALMER (Member # 125) on :
MR does occasionally have some interesting prototype articles but then I like to look at models 12" = 1'. They really should cater to the long-timers though, even though some of us will never scratch-build anything or hand-lay track etc. The best hand-crafted stuff really is impressive to see.
As for trains made in China, there is probably a lot more than just Athearn and Lionel made there as that's where many products are made these days.
Posted by Konstantin (Member # 18) on :
I have been unhappy with the maps of model railroads in Model Railroader for a long time. The quality is very poor. When I try and compare the maps with the photographs, I see inaccuracies in many of the maps.
It is ironic that in the recent issue (September 2003) of Model Railroader there is a letter praising one of the illustrators for his maps. I suppose some people look at them and see how pretty they are, rather than look at them for information. The maps may be pretty, but they are not accurate, and accuracy is far more important.
------------------ Elias Valley Railroad (N-scale) www.geocities.com/evrr
Posted by Chuck Walsh (Member # 677) on :
Any body catch the new subscription price sign up cards for" New subscripers only" in the Sept edition. Not bad, 54% off versus 39% regular
Posted by pleasant_st_tower (Member # 2715) on :
MR would be worth reading if they stopped catering to the new enthusiast. Not to say that they should not carry articles on helping people get up to speed, but read like the ask mr section. i mean how many times do you need to explain what signals do in a ginven year? The internet is a wonderful tool, and a very cheap means of publishing. Therefore why waste precious page space printing something that is so elementary? I have not ever had a subscription not because i didnt think it worth while but moreover because its cheaper to read what i need from the local library.
GD Gould Grand Rapids MI
Posted by FEF-3 (Member # 2686) on :
I have been reading railroad model craftsman latley and the articles they have are much more befitting of the hobby in my opinion. From cover to cover, there were how-to articles on scratch-building a tower and MOW cars, and very few ready to run things. I am going to switch my subscription when it runs out for MR.
Posted by Max Killen (Member # 2353) on :
I have a collection of Model Railroaders and Railroad Model Craftsman from 1942 to present. And yes, I too feel that MR's quality is slipping a little bit, and they are leaning towards the R-T-R aspect. But, face folks, we're not getting any younger. We do need new blood in the hobby to keep it going. It seems like most craftsman type hobbies are suffering, they can't compete with the electronic games today. If Model Railroader can get new people interested in the hobby, then I feel they should continue in the direction they are going. My favorite magazine is Narrow Gauge Gazette. I have never been disappointed with the magazine, although they publish to a specialized group, the articles and reviews are generic enough to apply to any and all scales
[This message has been edited by Max Killen (edited 08-27-2003).]
Posted by Challenger (Member # 1298) on :
But Im only 21. I got 100 years of model railroading left. I dont want ready to run.
Posted by Kairho (Member # 1567) on :
And there are some of us, not really all that old, who have only passing interest in scratch-building. I, for one, am happier than steam in a boiler to take a loco or car out of a box and run it ... and to do the occational structure/scenery kit.
For me, doing all the scenery is sufficient scratch building. If I had to put wheels on boxes I would probably not participate at all in the hobby.
I've observed before, there are railroad modelers and model railroaders. Almost all of the first are also the second, but not necessarily the reverse. It's just that different people have different starting points.
As to MR, I'm probably too new to get caught up in the debate. I do know that when I could only subscribe to one of the Nscale pubs (NSM or NS) I selected NSR because the other seemed to be too focussed on engineering drawings.
Posted by n2bnsf (Member # 2743) on :
Well, I have to disagree with most of y'all. I've been modeling for a little over 10 years and MR is largely responsible for getting me into the hobby and teaching me the basics. Today I am beyond that beginner stage, but I still get ideas from even the basic articles in MR. What is more, I benefit from the hobby-wide info published in MR. I also receive RMC and learn much about model building from it, but I learn about many other aspects of the hobbt from MR that RMC never touches, nor should it because that is not its target. Honestly, I enjoy reading MR while RMC is more like a research project for me. The layout tours are much more interesting and well written. Bottom line, MR may not be the in-depth model-building resource that some are looking for, but as a hobby-wide magazine to touch on all aspects of the hobby and provide something for everyone to keep all informed, they do an excellen job in my humble opinion. Ron
Posted by Challenger (Member # 1298) on :
Hi Ron,
Thanks for responding. You bring up many valid points. However, what gets my gripe, is that Model Railroader went from purely being a general interest model railroad magazine with topics in most modeling areas a month to a general interest 'scale use what ever you don't have to build (I.E. Toy Train)' magazine. Gone are such features as Paint Shop, the monthly set of plans, and the one feature I liked but enjoyed a short life "One reader's opinion". All these articles catered to the section of the hobby that have been in the hobby a while and were not afraid to cut and hack things to get what they want, while leaving I beleave plenty of space to cater to other topics for those not as far along the model railroad mainline. It is failing to serve this segment, which I am proud to claim to be apart of, that leaves me reading Model Railroad with wanting more when I am done. I have been reading Model Railroader since I was a kid, and have several issiued dating back to before I was born (June 1979 being the oldest)and todays Model Railroader is pale by Comparison in some ways.
Again Ron I think you for posting your opinion, and stating very good points so that we may further this debate.
Sincerely
James
Posted by CG96 (Member # 1408) on :
Challenger and Ron list some good points in their arguements. While I've been away from the hobby for some time, I've noticed as well that MR is skewing heavily towards the Novice end of the skill level in some sort of effort to drum up readership and get new modelers. My main issue with this is that I already have some modeling skills, and I'm gaining others as I build my series of fantasy RR and loco kits. Those certainly aren't RTR, and I'm applying what I've learned in the process of custom painting for the very first time. While some articles have proven very helpful in describing how to airbrush, and techniques and so forth, where are the articles that discuss beginners taking their knowledge/skill in the hobby to the next level? That's my main criticsm with MR currently. there's nothing there that directs the beginner, once they've got the RTR gear operational, to attempt to build an RR out of one's own imagination. Want to model the up main across Wyoming for the millionth time with Tyco's? There it is in MR. Want to have Garratts running across the US Midwest, or model something else that requires scratchbuilding and kitbashing? Want to see something that makes you go "Wow"? want to see what you could do with your hobby if you really applied yourself? Sorry, you're on your own. Posted by John Bruce (Member # 2760) on :
I've put up a long essay on MR, the NMRA, flaming on e-mail lists, train shows, swap meets, etc., called "The Sociology of Model Railroading" at http://trainweb.org/lfnwfan/html/Sociology.htm
This is long, so be warned. On the other hand, I had fun writing it, and some guys have had fun reading it.
Posted by Russ Bellinis (Member # 2377) on :
I used to subscribe to Model Railroader and Railroad Model Craftsman, but I model the Santa Fe. This isn't a criticism of either mag, just an observation. Most of the articals in both mags were not on Santa Fe or Western prototypes/scenery. That is to be expected from a general interest magazine devoted to the hobby as a whole. For me, the only subscription that is worthwhile is my membership in the Santa Fe Historical and Modelers Society. I browse the bookrack at my local hobby shop, and if one of the monthlys has an artical that catches my interest, or fits my modeling, I buy that issue.
Posted by Petey (Member # 2788) on :
Hello, Late to this discussion. The problem with MR stems from the fact that it is so dominant. It is a high quality magazine. I have subscribed to RMC, in part because it was less expensive. I believe us older modelers must move along with the hobby. I think MR's attempt to incorporate young modelers into the fold is very important. Also, there always have been those in the hobby who preferred RTR things, because their interest was not on building. Years ago there was no RTR, except for the toy train/sets market. The new out of the box stuff cannot be considered toys. We are competing with other venues which require only sitting in front of a screen, as a maximum physical effort. If you want more building exercise in your modeling/reading , try the "Prototype" societies & their magazines.
Posted by MRV-N (Member # 2782) on :
I can see why ya'll would be disgruntled with the quality of M.R., but for myself and probably hundreds of other people whove been in or just fresh to the hobby, the mag. is just a stepping stone to the bigger challenges of the hobby. I enjoy sitting down to read the most recent issue of M.R., but I also enjoy Mainline Modeler, Model Craftsman, Trains, and Classic Trains to find out details that differ from each builder, how people customize & personalize engine's and other such projects. I've been in this hobby for 2 years, and I've already kitbashed and repainted athearn engines, cutup and modified a Life Like Proto 2000 SD-60 to a SD-60B, buy undec's (Kato & Life Like Proto 2000) to paint in a prototypical railroad I'm setting up. So even the basic articles have helped me out. And hopefully it does the same for the hundreds out there starting out, to the most experienced.
Posted by bnsf (Member # 1971) on :
Fair dinkum guys. another post about model railroader. There is so much material now about how bad they are/nothing but r.t.r etc,etc. Be proactive and do what some modellers have suggested. Dont renew your membership. Find a mag that is suited toward your modelling skills. Not every one scratchbuilds and not every1 operates r.t.r and there is a heck of a lot of us in between. Reading posts like this can really turn people off. For god sake this is a hobby!! Have a great day to you all.
Posted by Larry N (Member # 2855) on :
I'm not a scratch-builder, (once, in the 70's) but when my father-in-law, to whom I introduced model railroading, claimed he not dextrous enough to build, I was kind of disappointed. Having grown up in the era of building kits and scratch-building, I felt at first, that he missed the whole point. But since this is really all about the joy of scale-model railroading, I'm glad that he is able to enjoy the hobby through this option. He still looks at master-level modeling with awe, as do I. I am still trying to find the time to start putting together some of the beautiful kits I've acquired, since recently reentering the hobby. Life is different in 2003 and time demands are eating away at my hobby time! So I can appreciate the effort to keep up the skillful and creative side of the hobby, as well as the RTR option. Different people appreciate the hobby from different perspectives. My father-in-law STARTED in his 60's, so I'm grateful that he has the RTR. I will keep using kits and kit-bashing, although maybe I'll attempt scratch-building if time loosens up. In the meantime, I'm still inspired by the photography in MR. Like the urban switchyard, w/0-6-0, a couple of months back. I think their layout photography can be very good, but I see what you mean about the technical side slipping. It is a loss.
Posted by Jesse (Member # 486) on :
Hello everyone,
I actually work with and help the guy that submits the computer generated drawings of many railroad related items (CAD program pics). His name is Harold Russell and he puts drawings in MR and MR Craftsman. Just curious to read what you guys think of the drawings? I like his work personally, he's a skilled engineer still at 72.
-Jesse, Rochester NY ---NRHS Chapter
Posted by Challenger (Member # 1298) on :
Mr. Russell's drawings are great. I can scratch build all live long day with them. Its just that I feel that Model Railroader has turned to a Beginners Issiue ever issiue affair, leaving the more experienced modelers like me with nothing challengeing to try our teeth on. However, in the two months since I have started this topic stream, I have noticed that MR has gotten a bit better with providing a more balanced issiue. Maybe some one from Kalmbach read this and got the hint?
James.
Posted by bnsf (Member # 1971) on :
After many years in this hobby i actually feel like doing something different. Getting far away from trains as possible. Can someone close this topic before a 'beginner' reads it. Just out of interest and for the love of sharing information model railroader has a publication lead of at least 3 months and i wouldnt be surprised if it was longer. I dont want to burst your bubble challenger but the magazine you read today was probably being put together in august. Maybe earlier. Not only that, but the page layout would be pretty much settled on before any sort of final drafting/printing etc. Would a post of some 20 odd responses change an editors mind of a magazine that has a publication of some 200,000 (thats a guess) magazines?? Big fat no.
Posted by 3-7-77 (Member # 2869) on :
I let my subscription expire and will not renew. IMHO, MR seems to have gotten away from a lot of the "old school" model railroading.
The Vigilante
Posted by westpoint64 (Member # 2022) on :
I've followed MR for many years and have a whole pile of them around here. I used to complain to all who would hear that they often seemed to me to be a "Rich Guy's" magazine that showed what you could do if you had a half-million dollars and all the time in the world to create an empire. It seemed...well, kinda geeky at times. Now I see it being called to terms for going the other way and being to "beginner-friendly". I say there's got to be some kind of middle ground. And for those of you who don't want to see stuff more geared to the beginner, I wish y'all would reconsider. Not everybody wants to go to the trouble, especially in this day and time, so if they want to include a little bit of "set it on the track and run" simple stuff, I'm not that worried about it. I DO hope, however, that fare like that doesn't entirely consume the magazine or readership is bound to decline over time. In MR's defense, I have to say that the title is "Model Railroader" and that it's not wrong for the mag to be general-interest therefore.
