I'm looking for early (1970s) Amtrak passenger cars (what I believe they now call Heritage cars, not Amfleet or Superliners). Who makes good ones? Which ones should I avoid? I would prefer to have lighted cars, but unlighted with a decent retrofit kit would be OK.
------------------ Trust God, love your neighbor, and never mistake opinion for truth. -Mr. Toy
Posted by oaksmodelrr (Member # 347) on :
I prefer the older Rivarossi/IHC cars, both the hvywgt smooth Pullman type and the lgtwgt corrugated Budd type cars. The newest runs are more like the lgtwgt corrugated side/smooth roof cars that Pullman made, similar to what Con Cor has been churning out for years. They are also scale length 85', unlike the Athearn and Con Cor 72' shorty cars. The Riv's also come with interiors and lights (and prices to match). Just today I saw two baggage cars on the Crescent and a diner and a roomette on the Star that are dead ringers for the Riv/IHC cars. Walthers is coming out with heritage cars very soon also.
Walthers is now advertising Amtrack cars. Look in the new MR and RMC mags.......Mike
Posted by cajon (Member # 40) on :
Con Cor makes 85' cars also. Walthers is coming out w/ some new streamliners soon. Both come in Amtrak paint schemes.
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
Thanks for the replies. Perhaps you can answer another question. I've now seen on-line pictures of the Rivarossi and IHC Amtrak cars. Both are offering a "Phase I" paint scheme that have black roofs like most Amtrak locomotives. However, even back in the '70s, when I rode Amtrak all the time, I never saw a black roofed car, nor have I seen any photos of such. They look kinda cool though. Does anyone know if Amtrak actually had cars with black roofs?
------------------ Trust God, love your neighbor, and never mistake opinion for truth. -Mr. Toy
Posted by JMH (Member # 331) on :
You are about to fall into the perenial trap of "was it prototype?" First you need to decide if it maters, then if it does you need to hunt for info and pictures. Once you have that you can move forward. If it does not matter, and it looks good then do what you like. I started in the hobby just getting what I thought was good looking. I then learned about prototype and started to go the other way. Eventually, I was so picky, I was rejecting most models because they were not the correct dementions or configuration. We are talking my rejecting something that was a scale six inches off. Of course you have to be able and willing at that point to paint and letter specifically for your needs, so if you go the prototype route, keep that in mind. Most models off the shelf are not quite accurate, but rather are a compilation of different versions of the same thing. You can choose how deep you want to go. Just remember, once you start down this path, you may be limiting the "fun" in the hobby.
Posted by Mr. Toy (Member # 311) on :
JMH, your point is well taken. I am new to this hobby, and I have already wrestled with that question, as my previous post implied. First and foremost I consider my trains to be toys, something to play with. I have no plans to operate them as a miniature version of a real railroad. Thanks for bringing me back to reality. But as an Amtrak fan I am curious if such black roofed prototypes ever actually existed.
------------------ Trust God, love your neighbor, and never mistake opinion for truth. -Mr. Toy
Posted by JMH (Member # 331) on :
Actually, a good question. I have a great deal of reference material, but it is, by choice, about older then 1960 stuff. I will try to dig out my old Burlington Northern Rail anuuals. I would suggest finding a copy of Extra 2200 South, A publication, that I still think exists, that speciallized in documenting consists, configurations, and paint schemes of modern prototype railroad operations. I used to have a complete collection, but sold it off some years back. I am sure you can find the info. The internet is a great research tool.
Keep us posted!
Posted by oaksmodelrr (Member # 347) on :
While researching another project, came across this picture of Amtrak X995 with a black roofed heritage car behind it. I see the Star and Crescent quite frequently and remember that at least one of the heritage cars still running on them has a black roof. Will have to check my pictures and video.
Your question is one of the reasons why this hobby is terrific. The interest can go many ways. It wasn't until after I grew up and spent some years in the hobby that I got interested in the real things. I always took the for granted, as I grew up with a four track main line out side of my apartment window in NYC. After I learned to appreciate the real things, I ended up a better modeler and the hobby became multi dimentional. Hence my interest in books, history, seeing the real thing, modeling and admiring the work of others.
Enjoy the hunt! It will pay off when after you run the black top Amtrack car and someone says "they never ran that way" you can pull out the phot and shut him down.
Oaks, that was great! Thanks for finding that. I notice the car in the photo is a smooth side, not corrugated. The Rivarossi and IHC black roof cars are indeed smooth sides. We're on to something here!
------------------ Trust God, love your neighbor, and never mistake opinion for truth. -Mr. Toy
Posted by JMH (Member # 331) on :
If memory serves, I think you can find a case for many different configurations. Remember that when Amtrack was born, they took equipment from everyone and put it to use. I think you will find that any passener car from the 50's through the early 70's can be made to work for Amtrack, and that the paint schemes will be varried. However, finding the proof is a the best way to go.
Posted by JMH (Member # 331) on :
Uh oh, my rusting memory is starting to raise a thought. If memory serves, and I am not sure it does, the loco pictured may be the famous Swedish "meatball". Sent here to try to sell that type (european construction). If that is true, or even if it is a different "x" model, the smooth side car behind it may not have been regular service, but rather support service for the test loco.. Does anyone have any info on this? If we keep this up, we may need to switch to one of the other chat area's for help.
I have a shot from December 2000 of this car on the Star, and it is definitely black.
BTW the X995 was the loaner from Sweden that Amtrak tested and based the AEM-7 on. It was tested in much the same way as the X2000, ICE, Acela, and HHP: first with test cars, then empty revenue cars and later in limited revenue service.
That one is a relatively recent photo. The roof looks black, but kind of faded.
I have a theory about the black roofs. Some pre-Amtrak railroads had cars with black roofs. When they repainted them in Amtrak colors they may have kept the roofs the same. This concludes my theory.
------------------ Trust God, love your neighbor, and never mistake opinion for truth. -Mr. Toy
Posted by JMH (Member # 331) on :
I am glad to see that my memory is still good. As for the black roofs, I am not certain, in viewing the picture mentioned, that the corrugated roof is black, or just looks that way as a combination of dirt, shading, lighting, etc.
This is a good topic to investigate further. I agree that there were probably cars that were painted silver, rather then actually being stainless, and those would possibly have black roofs.