RAILforum: Newbie

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Posted by BlueHansen (Member # 1521) on :

Howdy

I'm new to model railroading, (have long been interested), and am looking to learn as much as possible before I spend dollar one. I'd I've done a few searches looking for good tutorials/guides to learning about the basics, but have come up shorter than my expectations, particularly in the area of wiring/control. Anyone know of some good basic tutorial sites? I keep running across refrences to excellent books that one can buy, but I'd sure like to get everything possible free before I open my wallet.

Thanks,
Blue

Posted by Chuck Walsh (Member # 677) on :

You can try the National Model Railroad Association web site, www.nmra.org and scroll thru the topics. I think there is a new beginner topic.
You don't say what scale but Kalmbach Publishing Co. of Milwaukee who also publishes the monthly edition of Model Railroader also publishes books on, lighting, wiring, track work and scenery.
Visit their web site at www.kalmbachbooks.com.

The hobby has exploded just in the last 6 years in up-grades, selections, qualities.

In HO alone, there are 15+ manufacturers that
make diesel/steam locos and can be overwhelming.
Walthers publishes a HO catalog($21.00) that's over 1,000 pages and in N-scale (?)probably 400 to 500 pages.

Do you have any local hobby shops where you live?
It's tough to start out without local assistance.

Posted by Roger Hensley (Member # 1374) on :

Yes, the NMRA does have a beginner section at: http://www.nmra.org/beginner/ that is designed to help answer many of your questions. The suggestion about magazines and local shops is very good. Also, if you have any local clubs or an NMRA division, you may be able to get some help there as well.

Roger

Roger Hensley – madisonrails@railfan.net
== http://cid.railfan.net/eci_new.html ==
== East Central Indiana HO Scale Railroad ==

Posted by Konstantin (Member # 18) on :

You are correct that there are some excellent book available. If you live in a large enough city, your local library probably has several of them. Our county library here in Phoenix probably has over 100 books on model railroading. I rarely buy a book, I just check them out from the library.

Welcome to the hobby. You are doing the right thing by checking things out before you go ahead and buy things.

------------------
Elias Valley Railroad (N-scale)
www.geocities.com/evrr

Posted by Shane (Member # 1493) on :

Hey Blue,

Shane here. Since there are no replies to my post maybe I will reply to yours. In the area of wiring and control, there are, for the mean time two different control systems. They are radically different from each other. One is Standard DC, the other is DCC or Digital Command Control. I personally do not like either one!
When you are operating your trains on a standard DC layout, every single block that your train enters, must be powered up manually by means of a switch. When there are several throttles, rotary switches are commonly used to switch the block to the throttle your train is assigned to. This makes for a lot of screw ups during operation. Most of your time is spent figuring out who just ran the block, causing all of the trains to run away or stop running.
If you screw up like I do, your train turns into a runaway because you set the rotary switch to someone elses throttle. It is a major hassle when you have many people operating on the layout. You will spend more time troubleshooting and turning switches than running your trains. There is no need whatsoever to settle for this operating system.
To get around these problems, DCC was devised. This system gets rid of the switches that control the electrical blocks.
There is a board that is mounted in every single locomotive, this is the decoder. This board recognizes one throttle or cab as they are called in DCC language. All of the locomotives in a single lashup on one train must be set to the same throttle. If you have seven units in a lashup, it takes time to get all seven of them set to the same throttle.
Whenever you break a lashup down or make a new locomotive consist, every single engine must be set to the same throttle. There are people out there that will tell you that DCC is the neatest thing since toast. I personally do not believe that! It is very complex. One screwup in the coding sequence, and your train will become a runaway or will not move at all.
A 747 pilot will tell you that flying a 747 is easy. I have seen the coding process, and it is NOT easy. If you have not spent considerable time learning how to do it, you will screw it up! There is a considerable learning curve with DCC, but if you are smart and have a good understandig of digital electronics, DCC is just for you!!
I personally believe that you will spend more time programming and testing the system than running it. If you you want to pull one single locomotive out and replace it with another, you must program the locomotive to responde to the same throttle as the other units in the consist.
If you ask all of the DCC people out there how it is selling, they will tell you that DCC systems are selling like hot cakes. This is another falsehood! Only 12 to 15% of all control systems sold are DCC. I got my information from Andy Sperandeo at Model Railraoder and the people at MRC. If You ask Digitraxx,(the makers of DCC) their story is a lot different. They will tell you that every system going out is DCC.
The two above systems are on opposite extremes of each other with no common ground at all between them.
Several months ago I began looking at engineering my own control system. Something so simple that a first grader could do it without screwing it up. I wanted a system with no need for programming, no need for decoders in all of those locomotives.
If you have as many locomotives as I do, you are going to shell out big time. DCC is for rich people with plenty of money!!!!
The system that we are working on will be called Digital DC. With this, only one locomotive in a consist can be equipped with a board. It is not a decoder, but rather a Transponder. It generates its own identification, and does not change. When this locomotive is placed on the track, the screen identifies it for example as, and asks:
"This transponder is transmitting on Frequency 262.383 Which throttle do you wish to assign to this locomotive number? Please type the locomotives road number and click on the throttle number,( with one lousy click of the mouse, and that is it!).
Now you are asking do I have to have a computer to run this system? No you do not! We are designing this to operate with a computer or without one. If you wish, you can use your laptop! We will even design it so that you can record all of the movements made by several trains. Then you can set the computer to Auto-Dispatch and the trains will all automatically pass and go around each other just as you did before! Neato Huh?
The down side of this is that each electrical block must have a switchboard which routes control of the block to the right throttle. Right now the focus is on getting this part manufactured as inexpensively as possible. Right now, it looks feasible.
This system hits what is called "the happy medium" It gets several trains around each other without having to attend the DCC Intitue of Automatic Train Control.
Conventional DC creates too many headaches even when you are not screwing it up, and DCC requires too much of a learning curve, and too much time prepping trains to run.
I will be using my system when I build my layout this year. I engineered Digital DC and it is the only thing that I consider easy enough for my little six year old boy to operate! I have been engineering gadgets for a long time. If it can't pass the "little kid test" it is no good! That is just my opinion.
You can use what ever you want.

Shane

Posted by BlueHansen (Member # 1521) on :

Chuck, Roger, Konstantin, Shane -

Thank you for the replies. That's all good info that I intend to use. I've been looking the links y'all forwarded.

To reply to a couple of questions that came up in your responses...

Haven't decided on scale, yet, but am leaning heavily towards N. I'm in the Army, which means I move fairly frequently, and usually don't live in a large space. Lack of space and a need for maximum portability (of whatever I do) seem to preclude me from anything HO or bigger. Bummer, because it seems that you can get some really nice detail work done in HO, not mention that selection in HO is much wider, from what I've seen so far.

As to going to a local hobby shop - well, I'm in Seoul, Korea at the moment. The last local hobby shop I saw was back home in Des Moines, Iowa. Heh. But I'll look around.

As to DC versus DCC - thank you for all the info, Shane. You've got me thinking. As I'm just starting out, I think whatever layout I do first will be fairly simple, to try to learn the basics, and so I will probably learn about and use the standard wiring techniques. But what you've said may well be a help to me down the line - be sure I'll remember it.

Again, Thanks all -

Blue

Posted by Shane (Member # 1493) on :

Hey Blue,

If you ever need any help, just ask!

Shane

Posted by donk (Member # 1690) on :

Since you need a fairly mobile layout, I would recommend something similar to what I currently have. I have a 6'x8' HO layout on two hollow doors held up by saw horses. All trackwork is sectional (Bachmann e-z track). Even with this limited space, I have 40' of mainline and 30' of sidings and a dozen or more turnouts. The plan is basically a folded dogbone allowing continuous running or point to point operation. It was designed using microsoft drawing tools in powerpoint or worddraw. Just make up a toolbox of curves, straights & turnouts and away you go. The layout is DC only and has a reversing crossover to make things interesting. I have 3 main blocks run with a dual powerpack. A single switch controls the floating block. I adapted an Atlas turntable with reed switches to control power on 7 storage tracks. Most of the yard switches are within reach and are operated manually. Five of the switches are operated remotely. I also have two sidings with manual power switches in the yard to store locos and cars. Nothing on the layout is permanently attached and can be broken down for storage in a matter of hours. While I have quite a few buildings, I have very little natural scenery. If you are heavy into rocks, trees and bushes, the layout will probably not be very moveable. Adding non-permanent scenery will prove to be a challenge. I chose turn of the century shortline steam, because the engines and rolling stock are short and look better on 18" radius curves. All rolling stock has knuckle couplers (e-z mates) and trucks are being converted to non-magnetic axles to facilitate uncoupling action. All sidings are in pairs to avoid mainline uncouplers which tend to cause inadvertant uncouplings on consists. N scale has the advantage of looking better with longer, later era cars, however, there is less steam available and I believe N is in general more finicky. If you are going to use sectional track with insulated frogs, avoid 0-4-0T locos and add pickups to all wheels on anything else, otherwise you will get stalls at turnouts and crossings. I have built kits, bought RTR and kitbashed basket cases. With the exception of my Bachmann 3 truck Shay and a Model Power 2-8-0, I have had to fiddle with everything else to get them to run right but that's part of the fun. I hope this helps.